Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador kit!

[SonicRanger]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:
My feelings will not be hurt if people choose to paint their models in a scheme that is more pleasing to them... seriously.

I'm going out to buy my neon orange, hot pink, and glittery purple paints right now!

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

The God Thing said:
So the pearlescent lacquer finish of the TMP Refit was never an option for ST:TNG's Enterprise-D from a production standpoint or an aesthetic one?

TGT

The refit Enterprise was a 'big screen' upgrade and it's basic white coloring was instigated by my SFX Art Director, Richard Taylor. It was a great idea made greater by incorporating the beautiful pearlescent colors that came to be used. Unfortunately they didn't translate well onto film, but seeing that miniature in person was breathtaking, with all the subtle greens, yellows, pinks, blues, and everything in-between as you moved around it. The real down side of using those special powders & sealing lacquers was that the ship couldn't be touched without special gloves and the paint sheen created horrendous bluescreen reflections which had to be taken out by hand (no CG tools back then). That kind of "attention" would be too time-consuming & costly for Television, so I never considered it.

TNG was a NEW Star Trek TV series and I was VERY focused on creating a comfortable, somewhat reassuring & subliminally familiar setting for fans of the original series. That was my personal goal. It started with the TOS details I incorporated into the TNG bridge and continued through the sets on out to the exterior coloring. In trying to bring TNG visuals back to TOS, for instance, I presented the spatial logic of flat walls in the corridors (like TOS) instead of retaining the oddly-shaped corridors of the refit. I rearranged the transporter room to mimic that of TOS instead of keeping the 'booth' and phoney 'detailing' of the refit. The list goes on,... but to answer your question, pearlescents weren't considered because I was taking it back to the show's roots, but they still would not have worked from a production standpoint. Therefore, I gues you could say it was from an aesthetic (mine) standpoint.

Andrew-

 

[FalTorPan]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:
And eventually, this line will expand to include a whole collection of new original designs..... franchise free.

Now that is awesome news! Might some of these franchise-free designs be from the forthcoming book Probert Designs?

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

That thought did occur to me and I would do so if I thought any of the designs might be something people would want.

And, since you mentioned it, the book is severely behind, unfortunately, and won't be available for this Christmas. I'll post a notice on my site when I actually see an end in sight.

Andrew-

 

[NeghVar]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Curious - are any elements of "Designing Tommorow" going to be included in Probert Designs?

Thanks!
Art

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Sorry, I don't know what "Designing Tommorow" is... so it isn't in my book.

Andrew-

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:
The refit Enterprise was a 'big screen' upgrade and it's basic white coloring was instigated by my SFX Art Director, Richard Taylor. It was a great idea made greater by incorporating the beautiful pearlescent colors that came to be used. Unfortunately they didn't translate well onto film, but seeing that miniature in person was breathtaking, with all the subtle greens, yellows, pinks, blues, and everything in-between as you moved around it. The real down side of using those special powders & sealing lacquers was that the ship couldn't be touched without special gloves and the paint sheen created horrendous bluescreen reflections which had to be taken out by hand (no CG tools back then). That kind of "attention" would be too time-consuming & costly for Television, so I never considered it.

The only way that paint job worked at all was because Doug Trumbull wasn't using bluescreen. Rather, he was using a combination of black background and very bright backlight to generate the mattes.

The big problem is when ILM started doing the effects; THEY used bluescreen, and it wouldn't even take a camera test to know that a reflective paint job like that would be impossible to deal with against a bluescreen. So, buh-bye to that gorgeous paint job.

 

[NeghVar]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Designing Tomorrow: A Conceptual Artist's View of Star Trek: The Next Generation solicited in 1992 by Image Publishing.

Byline was: Designer Andrew Probert talks about his work on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Sorry I didn't include this on the first post.

Art

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Captain Robert April said:

Probert said:
The real down side of using those special powders & sealing lacquers was that the ship couldn't be touched without special gloves and the paint sheen created horrendous bluescreen reflections which had to be taken out by hand (no CG tools back then).

The only way that paint job worked at all was because Doug Trumbull wasn't using bluescreen. Rather, he was using a combination of black background and very bright backlight to generate the mattes.

The big problem is when ILM started doing the effects; THEY used bluescreen, and it wouldn't even take a camera test to know that a reflective paint job like that would be impossible to deal with against a bluescreen. So, buh-bye to that gorgeous paint job.

I know I've forgotten stuff after all this time but there IS an image stuck in my head of people removing (some sort of) background reflections on the Enterprise miniature. I recall seeing people working on film stock, one frame at a time, to get rid if them. Maybe I'm remembering a magazine article,... I don't know now, but it strongly seems like it was the Trumbull effects team from TMP, not the ILM team from the following film.

Andrew-

 

[Santaman]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Hmm... since you're modelling your Ambassador concept in CGI you actually could fit it with a pearlescent paint job like the TMP Enterprise...

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

NeghVar said:
Designing Tomorrow: A Conceptual Artist's View of Star Trek: The Next Generation solicited in 1992 by Image Publishing.

Byline was: Designer Andrew Probert talks about his work on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Wow, More stuff I've forgotten. This was a book project originally titled: "Drawing Board to Silver Screen", changed to 'Designing Tomorrow' by the intended publisher (which is why I'd forgotten that title). Unfortunately, they weren't able to push it through all the politics.

Andrew-

 

[Data Holmes]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:

NeghVar said:
Designing Tomorrow: A Conceptual Artist's View of Star Trek: The Next Generation solicited in 1992 by Image Publishing.

Byline was: Designer Andrew Probert talks about his work on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Wow, More stuff I've forgotten. This was a book project originally titled: "Drawing Board to Silver Screen", changed to 'Designing Tomorrow' by the intended publisher (which is why I'd forgotten that title). Unfortunately, they weren't able to push it through all the politics.

Andrew-

Surly you kept some of the notes good man

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:

Captain Robert April said:

Probert said:
The real down side of using those special powders & sealing lacquers was that the ship couldn't be touched without special gloves and the paint sheen created horrendous bluescreen reflections which had to be taken out by hand (no CG tools back then).

The only way that paint job worked at all was because Doug Trumbull wasn't using bluescreen. Rather, he was using a combination of black background and very bright backlight to generate the mattes.

The big problem is when ILM started doing the effects; THEY used bluescreen, and it wouldn't even take a camera test to know that a reflective paint job like that would be impossible to deal with against a bluescreen. So, buh-bye to that gorgeous paint job.

I know I've forgotten stuff after all this time but there IS an image stuck in my head of people removing (some sort of) background reflections on the Enterprise miniature. I recall seeing people working on film stock, one frame at a time, to get rid if them. Maybe I'm remembering a magazine article,... I don't know now, but it strongly seems like it was the Trumbull effects team from TMP, not the ILM team from the following film.

Andrew-

I don't doubt that happened with TMP. One of the drawbacks of the method Trumbull was using is any dark shadows on the miniature, or really bright highlights when the silhouetting with the backlight to generate the mattes (especially the backlighting phase), turn into "holes", through which the background elements show through, so yeah, I'm sure there was some cleaning up taking place.

My point was that with that pearlescent paint job, use of a bluescreen would be impossible, hence the major dullcoating the model got when ILM got the gig.

Sidenote: A really good look at this method of doing opticals, aside from the rather rare behind-the-scenes photo of the big "whitescreen" (for lack of a better term) in action, is in one of the early teaser trailers; there's an unprocesed shot of the Enterprsie leaving the drydock. Completely black background, no stars, no planet, and if you look carefully, you can see the pole mount on the starboard side of the secondary hull.

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

THAT'S what it was... they were creating hold-out mattes. They would silhouette the unlit Enterprise against white, using high contrast black & white film for that 'hold-out' 'pass'. The resulting 'black' Enterprise would be used to hold out that section of the background when composited against stars/planets. It was the white reflections that I remember being filled in with black on the film stock.

Geeeze, so much stuff.

Andrew-

 

[Starlock]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

In the same vein:

Firefox

Special effects supervisor John Dykstra pioneered a new technique for shooting the complex flying sequences. Reverse bluescreen involved coating the model with phosphorus paint and photographing it first with strong lighting against a black background and then with ultraviolet light to create the necessary male and female mattes to separate the foreground model and the background footage. This enabled the shiny black model to be photographed flying against a clear blue sky and gleaming white snow (compare with traditional bluescreen technique on The Empire Strikes Back).

Back to topic: If the demand, scale and economics allow it, what are the chances of a version of the Ambassador with transparent parts to allow a lighting kit?

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Clear resin, perhaps?

 

[dru]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

I love watching this ship being worked on. I as disappointed with the screen-used Ent C but, of course, understand why it took the form it did. I'm excited to see the Ambassador finally come to life.

I do have a question for Mr Probert: is there any insight you can shed on the Phase 2 Enterprise' navigational deflector? Publicly seen Jeffries blueprints don't seem to reveal a design while a TMP production painting suggests an external was intended as on TOS Enterprise. The Mike Minor production painting is unclear. Thanks!

PS thanks for the classic cylons

 

[regemet]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

I also think it is over time to see the real Ambassador

 

[Probert]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

dru said:
I'm excited to see the Ambassador finally come to life.

I must say,... I'm really glad there's been such a positive response to this ship........ so far.

Yes, creating a lightable version has been discussed and is possible, but not locked in. There are cost factors to be considered (yours/ours) as well as how we would do it, etc. Stay tuned.

I don't remember if I ever saw any Phase II nav deflector indications beyond Mike Minor's painting, but it was my impression that it was to have been close to the TOS Enterprise configuration.

And I'm still a couple of days away from another update, sorry. That dorsal-receiving 'collar' on the engineering hull is a bit tricky (for me).

Andrew-

 

[Maurice]

Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

^^^The Mike Minor painting was, I believe, revised as the design changed, much as Ralph McQuarrie altered his Star Wars pre-production paintings as the film developed.