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Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador kit!

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Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

DS9Sega said:
Quick question... the ship in "The Naked Now" you mention was seen in numerous shots throughout the episode, and even blown up at the end, so I'm having a tough time imagining how a matte painting could have served in this capacity.

Or am I just hopelessly confused?

Maurice

Obviously Andrew is more qualified to answer this than I am, but consider that the painting predated the profile schematic -- which was the basis for the Enterprise-C half-model in the TNG conference lounge set. At that early a stage in preproduction, it's possible that the shot requirements for "The Naked Now" had not been established.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Captain Robert April said:
Gotta love all this speculation flying around about what the painting was meant for, and nobody thought to just ask Andrew for the specifics.

I think we've spent too many years in the wilderness.

Actually, I did ask... hence the "Yea or nay" bit... but your point is well-taken.

C'mon, you know as well as I that trying to figure this stuff outis why most of us are here in the first place. ;)
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

DS9Sega said:
The ship in "The Naked Now" was seen in numerous shots and even blown up at the end, so I'm having a tough time imagining how a matte painting could have served in this capacity.

Or am I just hopelessly confused?

Maurice

Wow,... uh, actually,... I'm probably the confused one here... but it's the very first time in my life, I might add!

Re-remembering the early development of those first episodes (20 years ago), there was an opening scene rendezvous, and my painted proposal was, as indicated, close to your 'photo-construction'. I now remember that I felt a painted NEW ship would have worked because it was only to be seen during that one shot, and it would have been an affordable way to update the look of StarFleet. Bob Justman shot the idea down, preferring to use a miniature, which I thought was silly because there was to be no movement (initial concept) of the waiting ship. Nevertheless, the producers' initial choice was that survey ship Grissom (my point of [apparent] confusion) but it ended up being the Excelsior class U.S.S. Fearless.

The episode was "Where No One Has Gone Before".

Maybe between all of us, Trek history WILL be preserved.

Andrew-
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Thanks Andy, you know I'm just here to keep you honest. KIDDING! ;)

Anyway, I think my little composite proved your point that a matte shot would have worked just splendidly. In fact, the effects crew could have added flashing running rights to the ship in the compositing stage and the illusion would have been complete.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

I cringed every time I saw an Excelsior or Grissom reused. It just seemed so... wrong. An interstellar civilization learning an entire culture's knowledge with every first contact, and somehow starship designs from a century before are adequate? Unless they are the ultimate in starship design, it doesn't make sense. Sure, they might be able to do the job, but the cruiser Olympia can do the job of crossing the ocean, yet you don't see it on the Navy register. I know the folks that engage in making it all make sense will beat me up for this, but sometimes you just have to say "No, it doesn't work".

And we aren't even mentioning the various relative sizes those ships were given onscreen. If there was ever a convincing argument for keeping two ships far apart in a shot, it's the post-TOS filming of ship models...

Well, come to think of it, "Doomsday Machine" shows us that even TOS sometimes got that aspect of things awfully wrong.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Two big factors rule supreme, even today: 1) Can we afford it? and 2) Can you tell what's going on in the scene on a 13" black and white portable?
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Captain Robert April said:
Two big factors rule supreme, even today: 1) Can we afford it? and 2) Can you tell what's going on in the scene on a 13" black and white portable?

Pardon my French Cappy, but that's a big fucking portable.

Also, I don't think those kinds of TV's are really portable, unless you're used to carrying 25-50lbs in one hand.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Compared to the monitor I'm looking at, it's an iPod.

Besides, I'm probably dating myself badly, but once upon a time, any tv that wasn't in one of those big console monsters was considered a portable, especially if they had a handle of some sort. This included my parents' old 19" Sony Trinitron.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

CRA's right... "portable" TVs have been around for ages. Video IPODs are what people tend to think of today, but a "portable" was simply something you could carry from one room of the house to another.

I have a (COLOR) 13" portable out in my garage. It's not all that bad, really. It's more like an airline carryone than an IPOD, sure, but it's still perfectly portable. I bought it back when I was in college (84-88), and it still works (until the digital full-conversion in a couple of years renders it totally obsolete), so when I'm working in the garage, it's my "background noise" entertainment, still.

Granted, it's limited to the remaining four VHF and the one remaining UHF channels I can pick up... but that's enough for the main broadcast channels in my area for now.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Yeah, TVs used to *be* furniture, instead of being put *on* furniture.
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

B.J. said:
Yeah, TVs used to *be* furniture, instead of being put *on* furniture.

I'm half tempted to bust out my family's old table-TV (as in a TV that's also meant to be used as a table.) The Emerson TV I have here in the computer room lost it's color tube, but as I've said, I'd have to get rid of the large cabinet it's sitting in.

BTW, to give an idea of how big the old gal is, it's currently supporting an old Philco 38-116XX Radio on top of itself.

38116xxtb7.jpg


The thing is about 4'x3'x2', so you can imagine how stout the TV must be underneath. :)
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:
Speaking of big old gals,... here's an update: A rack o' ribs

Andrew, are these ribs intended to suggest the secondary hull's internal compartment architecture or are they merely an artifact of the 3D modeling program? :)

TGT
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

The God Thing said:
Probert said:
... here's an update: A rack o' ribs

Are these ribs intended to suggest the secondary hull's internal compartment architecture or are they merely an artifact of the 3D modeling program? :)

TGT

Just part of my modeling process. They will have a 'skin' placed over them, then get some additional tweaking. The same process will happen for the bottom.

Andrew-
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

So, basically, Andrew is making his CGI model using the same skills he'd use to make a PHYSICAL model.

That's not a bad way to do it at all.

Me, I tend to think one step further removed... I try to model the "real ship" whereas Andrew is modeling the "real filming miniature."

Doesn't mean that both can't end up at the exact same final result. But it's a great illustration of how you can apply "real world" techniques to CGI. Nobody should ever just start stretching shapes around without a clear design approach (and a clear "skeletal structure" such as we're seeing here) in place first.

I'm definitely enjoying the evolution of this model into something "real."

Andrew, have you thought at all about internal configuration... or, do you PLAN to? One of the wonderful things about computer data models is that you can "slice" them in all variety of ways and come up with, at the very least, OUTLINES of deckplans. (You can also go nuts like I have on my ships... build real decks inside and everything... but I'll be the first to admit that, with computer technology's current state of evolution, that's probably excessive for most needs today!)
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Cary L. Brown said:
Andrew, have you thought at all about internal configuration... or, do you PLAN to? One of the wonderful things about computer data models is that you can "slice" them in all variety of ways and come up with, at the very least, OUTLINES of deckplans.

Perhaps we could somehow convince Mr. Probert to spend the rest of his natural life designing and modeling the entire NX-10521 down to her last duranium rivet employing an aerospace industry PLM/CAD/CAE/KBE application such as CATIA (which, interestingly, is the software suite chosen by Northrop Grumman to design from the keel up the USN's new Gerald R. Ford Class of aircraft carriers). ;)

TGT
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Cary L. Brown said:
(You can also go nuts like I have on my ships... build real decks inside and everything... but I'll be the first to admit that, with computer technology's current state of evolution, that's probably excessive for most needs today!)

Excessive maybe... but it sure is fun. :D
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Cary L. Brown said:
So, basically, Andrew is making his CGI model using the same skills he'd use to make a PHYSICAL model.

That's not a bad way to do it at all... a great illustration of how you can apply "real world" techniques to CGI.

Nobody should ever just start stretching shapes around without a clear design approach (and a clear "skeletal structure" such as we're seeing here) in place first.

Andrew, have you thought at all about internal configuration... or, do you PLAN to?
When I work on a project like this I only concern myself with interior spaces that directly influence the exterior, like the bridge & Captain's office, for instance; or the shuttle bays. The interiors can be created to fit the hull afterword, like Ed Whitefire did on the Enterprise-D. Nautical ship designers, aircraft designers, even car designers all do the same thing today, creating the exterior first.

As for my modeling "skills", I'm always playing catch-up on the computer. I know that nurbs modeling is THE way to go, but that's something I just don't have the time to learn on my own, so I just plod along with the real-world method I'm familiar with. It works, to some degree, but creating the smooth lines & transitions I envision are not very quick or easy, so parts of this puppy are taking way too much time. Ultimately, however, it's the best way for me to communicate with a model-builder, because it provides cross sections from which to build. And, to answer an earlier question, yes ortho views will be available afterword.

And, no, I don't plan to create interior plans for the Ambassador, myself, but will probably work with a person who's already contacted me about creating a set.

Andrew-
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

Probert said:
Cary L. Brown said:
So, basically, Andrew is making his CGI model using the same skills he'd use to make a PHYSICAL model.

That's not a bad way to do it at all... a great illustration of how you can apply "real world" techniques to CGI.
As for my modeling "skills", I'm always playing catch-up on the computer. I know that nurbs modeling is THE way to go, but that's something I just don't have the time to learn on my own, so I just plod along with the real-world method I'm familiar with.
To be fair, modern aircraft designers also use cross sections when coming up with the configuration for a new design. Many times it's to control an airfoil section, but they also do it to help ensure some internal volume requirements. Then the loft group takes those sections and rough passes at surfaces and comes up with the final surfaces for the aircraft. There's a lot more analysis involved than just "make it pretty", and a lot of times I bet nurbs wouldn't provide the level of control needed. So your method is still perfectly valid, Andrew! :thumbsup:
 
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki

B.J. said:
To be fair, modern aircraft designers also use cross sections when coming up with the configuration for a new design... So your method is still perfectly valid, Andrew!
That's good to know,... thanks. With your background, you should know.

Speaking of that, did you know that Ed Whitefire is also an aeronautical engineer? Even though the hull outlines have been slightly altered in his 'E-D' deck plans, I'm most impressed with his set becuse he took into account the structural requirements a starship like the E-D might need, especially in the two-hull connection areas.

Andrew-
 
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