Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador kit!
- Thread starter GodThingFormerly
- Start date
- Status
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I was always worried that the TMP-ENT would get a torp jammed in the tube and go off, since the tubes snake around the core!
The TOS-ENT was better in that all the weapons were in the bowels of the saucer and the warp machinery was not in the neck or saucer.
Anyway, looking forward to seeing this finished!
I was always worried that the TMP-ENT would get a torp jammed in the tube and go off, since the tubes snake around the core!
The TOS-ENT was better in that all the weapons were in the bowels of the saucer and the warp machinery was not in the neck or saucer.
Anyway, looking forward to seeing this finished!
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
Agreed. I disliked the inclusion of the aft firing torpedo in the impulse housing of the Defiant on ENT's Mirror episode. I thought it would have been better to have it in the lower fantail, away from everything except the cargo holds and the hangar maintenance bay. So... it is an unexpected bump in the road to see one of my favorite designers include that photorp so close to the impulse housing.
But, like you I am anxious to see where all this leads. :thumbsup:
Agreed. I disliked the inclusion of the aft firing torpedo in the impulse housing of the Defiant on ENT's Mirror episode. I thought it would have been better to have it in the lower fantail, away from everything except the cargo holds and the hangar maintenance bay. So... it is an unexpected bump in the road to see one of my favorite designers include that photorp so close to the impulse housing.
But, like you I am anxious to see where all this leads. :thumbsup:
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
^ Weeelllllll, on the assumption that the Ambassador Class employs an NCC-1701 (Refit) type linear intermix propulsion reactor architecture - as the visible presence of an "impulse deflection crystal" on Probert's current WIP suggests - it would make a certain amount of engineering sense to place the photon torpedo launchers as close to their anti-matter supply as possible. After all, piping that crap to opposing ends of the ship would needlessly multiply the systems complexity (and thus points of potential containment failure, particularly during battle) for little if any tangible return.
TGT
^ Weeelllllll, on the assumption that the Ambassador Class employs an NCC-1701 (Refit) type linear intermix propulsion reactor architecture - as the visible presence of an "impulse deflection crystal" on Probert's current WIP suggests - it would make a certain amount of engineering sense to place the photon torpedo launchers as close to their anti-matter supply as possible. After all, piping that crap to opposing ends of the ship would needlessly multiply the systems complexity (and thus points of potential containment failure, particularly during battle) for little if any tangible return.
TGT
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I know, and I'm sure he's being more consistent with himself and TMP than with the other sources I mentioned. It's just that particular feature of the Enterprise class never sat entirely well with me*, though David Kimble's rendering of the intermix/torpedo junction in the published cutaway of the ship was vastly superior to the crock foisted on everyone when Probert's handsome Klingon bridge was trashed by Meyer et al to make a torpedo bay.
*The dorsal-mounted photorp tube traces its origins back to the mind of Jefferies, though if his Phase 2 cross section is to be believed, he wouldn't have had any intermix chamber threading its way through that neck, and the two propulsion systems would have remained independent.
I know, and I'm sure he's being more consistent with himself and TMP than with the other sources I mentioned. It's just that particular feature of the Enterprise class never sat entirely well with me*, though David Kimble's rendering of the intermix/torpedo junction in the published cutaway of the ship was vastly superior to the crock foisted on everyone when Probert's handsome Klingon bridge was trashed by Meyer et al to make a torpedo bay.
*The dorsal-mounted photorp tube traces its origins back to the mind of Jefferies, though if his Phase 2 cross section is to be believed, he wouldn't have had any intermix chamber threading its way through that neck, and the two propulsion systems would have remained independent.
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
The presence of that circle on the keel of the Phase II Enterprise kinda confirms to me that, like the same marking on the keel of the TOS ship, the marking is supposed to be a core ejection port (or at least became to be taken as such; it wouldn't be the first time Jefferies cooked up something because it looked good on screen, then did some backward rationalization to come up wtih a technical reason for it, ala the theory behind the registry of NCC-1701).
So, figure that into where Jefferies was thinking of as the location of the intermix chamber.
And considering the same markings show up on the E-A (in homage to the original ship), the same approach can be used to work out the internal arrangement of that ship.
We return you now to your regularly scheduled thread on the original coneptual art for the Ambassador class starship, already in progress.
The presence of that circle on the keel of the Phase II Enterprise kinda confirms to me that, like the same marking on the keel of the TOS ship, the marking is supposed to be a core ejection port (or at least became to be taken as such; it wouldn't be the first time Jefferies cooked up something because it looked good on screen, then did some backward rationalization to come up wtih a technical reason for it, ala the theory behind the registry of NCC-1701).
So, figure that into where Jefferies was thinking of as the location of the intermix chamber.
And considering the same markings show up on the E-A (in homage to the original ship), the same approach can be used to work out the internal arrangement of that ship.
We return you now to your regularly scheduled thread on the original coneptual art for the Ambassador class starship, already in progress.
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
Hey, gang, just a quick note here,... what you're seeing is actually the fusion reactor housing, not a deflection crystal dome.
The photon tube is available for aft protection when the saucer is operating independently, and with proper shielding & operational protocols, there shouldn't be any problems with it's location below the impulse emitters. Also, an overhanging structure has been provided to further isolate the tube. The main aft photon tube (upcoming lower engineering hull) is to be used exclusively while the ship is in standard configuration... not wanting to risk a wild torpedo hitting one of the warp engines.
Andrew-
Hey, gang, just a quick note here,... what you're seeing is actually the fusion reactor housing, not a deflection crystal dome.
The photon tube is available for aft protection when the saucer is operating independently, and with proper shielding & operational protocols, there shouldn't be any problems with it's location below the impulse emitters. Also, an overhanging structure has been provided to further isolate the tube. The main aft photon tube (upcoming lower engineering hull) is to be used exclusively while the ship is in standard configuration... not wanting to risk a wild torpedo hitting one of the warp engines.
Andrew-
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I don't believe that they were present in TWOK, either, though I'm not certain. I BELIEVE that they were added during the repair job after Bran Ferren's paint job in ST-V, by ILM. Anyone know for certain?
Well, go back and watch TMP again... those underside markings on the secondary hull were not present at that time.Captain Robert April said:
The presence of that circle on the keel of the Phase II Enterprise kinda confirms to me that, like the same marking on the keel of the TOS ship, the marking is supposed to be a core ejection port (or at least became to be taken as such; it wouldn't be the first time Jefferies cooked up something because it looked good on screen, then did some backward rationalization to come up wtih a technical reason for it, ala the theory behind the registry of NCC-1701).
So, figure that into where Jefferies was thinking of as the location of the intermix chamber.
And considering the same markings show up on the E-A (in homage to the original ship), the same approach can be used to work out the internal arrangement of that ship.
We return you now to your regularly scheduled thread on the original coneptual art for the Ambassador class starship, already in progress.
I don't believe that they were present in TWOK, either, though I'm not certain. I BELIEVE that they were added during the repair job after Bran Ferren's paint job in ST-V, by ILM. Anyone know for certain?
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I'm curious, then... did you originally think that this was part of the impulse fusion assembly during the pre-TMP time, or is this sort of a new concept that just happens to resemble an old one (which is fine by me... )?
I like the idea of preventing an immediate "misfire" for blowing your ship all to heck if practical. Of course, the TMP Enterprise could've hulled the primary hull easily enough in the same manner, couldn't it? Same with the 1701-D. So I'm not 100% sold that this is really an issue... they must've fixed the misfiring issue with torpedos long ago, else virtually every Fed ship we've seen would have hulled itself dozens of times. Reliant, each Enterprise, etc ,etc.
Anyway, my 2cents...
Well, it's an honest mistake, considering that it sure looks like the TMP device.
I'm curious, then... did you originally think that this was part of the impulse fusion assembly during the pre-TMP time, or is this sort of a new concept that just happens to resemble an old one (which is fine by me... )?
Question, then... is it possible to bypass the "lockout" of that tube, and potentially fire it when docked, or is there an actual mechanical "lock-out/tag-out" type system that physically prevents the device from being used when the two sections are together?
I like the idea of preventing an immediate "misfire" for blowing your ship all to heck if practical. Of course, the TMP Enterprise could've hulled the primary hull easily enough in the same manner, couldn't it? Same with the 1701-D. So I'm not 100% sold that this is really an issue... they must've fixed the misfiring issue with torpedos long ago, else virtually every Fed ship we've seen would have hulled itself dozens of times. Reliant, each Enterprise, etc ,etc.
Anyway, my 2cents...
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
Yeah, they were added for TUC at ILM by Bill George. He told me and I think other writers covering the film as well, and based them on pics of the TOS E that he saw in an old poster magazine.
Cary L. Brown said:
Well, go back and watch TMP again... those underside markings on the secondary hull were not present at that time.Captain Robert April said:
The presence of that circle on the keel of the Phase II Enterprise kinda confirms to me that, like the same marking on the keel of the TOS ship, the marking is supposed to be a core ejection port (or at least became to be taken as such; it wouldn't be the first time Jefferies cooked up something because it looked good on screen, then did some backward rationalization to come up wtih a technical reason for it, ala the theory behind the registry of NCC-1701).
So, figure that into where Jefferies was thinking of as the location of the intermix chamber.
And considering the same markings show up on the E-A (in homage to the original ship), the same approach can be used to work out the internal arrangement of that ship.
We return you now to your regularly scheduled thread on the original coneptual art for the Ambassador class starship, already in progress.
I don't believe that they were present in TWOK, either, though I'm not certain. I BELIEVE that they were added during the repair job after Bran Ferren's paint job in ST-V, by ILM. Anyone know for certain?
Yeah, they were added for TUC at ILM by Bill George. He told me and I think other writers covering the film as well, and based them on pics of the TOS E that he saw in an old poster magazine.
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
The TNG Tech Manual speculates that the Enterprise-D's saucer module has an aft-facing torpedo tube in the cavity normally occupied by the "cobra head" of the battle section. (I suspect this was an "upgrade" devised after the pilot episode, since the tube is not visible on either the filming miniature or the main engineering cutaway diagram.) If misfires were an issue, then it would be very possible for the battle section to be destroyed before it ever entered battle.
The TNG Tech Manual speculates that the Enterprise-D's saucer module has an aft-facing torpedo tube in the cavity normally occupied by the "cobra head" of the battle section. (I suspect this was an "upgrade" devised after the pilot episode, since the tube is not visible on either the filming miniature or the main engineering cutaway diagram.) If misfires were an issue, then it would be very possible for the battle section to be destroyed before it ever entered battle.
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
The WIP has just been updatified! And yes, the diagonal nacelle pylons have finally returned! Woohoo! Now if only they could be swept back just a leeetle...
TGT
The WIP has just been updatified!
And yes, the diagonal nacelle pylons have finally returned! Woohoo! Now if only they could be swept back just a leeetle... TGT
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
In TMP, I envisioned the impulse engines being tied into the main power, supplied by anti-matter, so what wasn't being used for the warp drive was being deflected up into the impulse system. One of the perks of working on Next Gen was having Rick Sternbach there to help me understand and put into visuals a lot of the projected science we needed to support the current designs. I didn't have the advantage of those insights on TMP so what you see on TNG (some 85 years later) is an 'evolved' power system, including dedicated reactors for the impulse engines. I've just sort of back-projected that thinking into the Ambassador.
Andrew-
Indeed,... sorry 'bout that.
In TMP, I envisioned the impulse engines being tied into the main power, supplied by anti-matter, so what wasn't being used for the warp drive was being deflected up into the impulse system. One of the perks of working on Next Gen was having Rick Sternbach there to help me understand and put into visuals a lot of the projected science we needed to support the current designs. I didn't have the advantage of those insights on TMP so what you see on TNG (some 85 years later) is an 'evolved' power system, including dedicated reactors for the impulse engines. I've just sort of back-projected that thinking into the Ambassador.
Yes, it would be possible,... especially if the main aft system is damaged or otherwise inoperative.
Andrew-
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I thought of a saucer's aft tube after the miniature construction was well under way and was not allowed to add it, even as a 'painted' detail. Subsequent cutaway diagrams do, however, include that tube, both in the TNG Tech Manual and Ed Whitefire's blueprints. You'll also find it on the AMT plastic model kit.
Andrew-
I thought of a saucer's aft tube after the miniature construction was well under way and was not allowed to add it, even as a 'painted' detail. Subsequent cutaway diagrams do, however, include that tube, both in the TNG Tech Manual and Ed Whitefire's blueprints. You'll also find it on the AMT plastic model kit.
Andrew-
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I have long wondered about that decision, Mr. Probert, considering that proton/anti-proton reactions are orders of magnitude more efficient and energetic than even the best modern theoretical "spheromak" thermonuclear fusion reactor designs employing, say, Cat-DD or DHe^3 fuels. For the NCC-1701 and her Refit to accelerate to high relativistic velocities via impulse engines (which was strongly implied to be a Newtonian rocket in both TOS and TMP) in only a matter of seconds as seen on screen is, of course, absolutely impossible, even when energized by anti-matter, but it is even more impossible with any conceivable type of fusion rocket. That was why I considered your "impulse deflection crystal" such a stroke of intuitive design genius. Anti-proton reactions generate an enormous quantity of gamma rays which would need to be directionalized in order to provide optimum thrust, and in 1981 the Italian plasma physicist Dr. Giovanni Vulpetti proposed doing just so by exploiting vacuum polarization via means of supercharged nuclei. Your IDC provided the perfect visual cue to imply the existence of the unimaginably advanced technology required for just such a sublight propulsion system.
TGT
I have long wondered about that decision, Mr. Probert, considering that proton/anti-proton reactions are orders of magnitude more efficient and energetic than even the best modern theoretical "spheromak" thermonuclear fusion reactor designs employing, say, Cat-DD or DHe^3 fuels. For the NCC-1701 and her Refit to accelerate to high relativistic velocities via impulse engines (which was strongly implied to be a Newtonian rocket in both TOS and TMP) in only a matter of seconds as seen on screen is, of course, absolutely impossible, even when energized by anti-matter, but it is even more impossible with any conceivable type of fusion rocket. That was why I considered your "impulse deflection crystal" such a stroke of intuitive design genius. Anti-proton reactions generate an enormous quantity of gamma rays which would need to be directionalized in order to provide optimum thrust, and in 1981 the Italian plasma physicist Dr. Giovanni Vulpetti proposed doing just so by exploiting vacuum polarization via means of supercharged nuclei. Your IDC provided the perfect visual cue to imply the existence of the unimaginably advanced technology required for just such a sublight propulsion system.
TGT
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
Hey Andy... You don't mind if I call you that do you?
You should talk to TGT more often. His vast knowledge of aerospace industry and scientific realm is most impressive. :thumbsup:
Hey Andy... You don't mind if I call you that do you?
You should talk to TGT more often. His vast knowledge of aerospace industry and scientific realm is most impressive. :thumbsup:
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
Hey, TGT... what's your background? I mean, the profile just says "Gene Roddenberry's Spacefaring Cybernetic Deity # 652148" which, while amusing, isn't very informative.
Hey, TGT... what's your background? I mean, the profile just says "Gene Roddenberry's Spacefaring Cybernetic Deity # 652148" which, while amusing, isn't very informative.
Re: Andy Probert releases prelim plans for USS Ambassador ki
I really like the overhead shot looking aft. Since aft-facing windows have been carved into the bridge module area, it would be fun to see a shot from behind the windows looking aft, if for no other reason than to see whether the nacelles would be fully obscured by the saucer.
I really like the overhead shot looking aft. Since aft-facing windows have been carved into the bridge module area, it would be fun to see a shot from behind the windows looking aft, if for no other reason than to see whether the nacelles would be fully obscured by the saucer.
- Status