Andromeda - Gene Roddenbury's

[rramarr]

Dropping Wolfe and the original guiding vision along with him is what really screwed things up. If you look at season 1 and early season 2, and compare them to the rest of the show, you can see how badly they screwed up. They set up a great many complex plot threads, all of which were abandoned for a Sorbo-centric adventure-of-the-week style. A few were hastily and awkwardly tied up, while others were just left in the dust.

The same is true for Earth:Final Conflict.

I think you hit it on the nose. The demise was apparent after the second season (the RHW era), but its not clear who to point the finger at because Sorbo did a lot of producing but none of the writing. Engels wrote less than 10 shows. So its speculative about who killed it off. Th majority of the later seasons went to lesser accomplished writers under the production of Sorbo, Engels and Barrett.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The story was created by Gene...

It was not, except to the extent that elements were borrowed from "Genesis II." The storyline and overall concept were created by RHW before he even became involved with Tribune and Majel.

 

[rramarr]

The story was created by Gene...

It was not, except to the extent that elements were borrowed from "Genesis II." The storyline and overall concept were created by RHW before he even became involved with Tribune and Majel.

OK well tell all those authority's on the subject a imdb and those who created the credits on the broadcast and DVDs that they are wrong. You can still be a creator when you come up with the original idea and/or characters. I think all the other sources rightfully credit RWH as a developer.

 

[Pilot Ace]

OK well tell all those authority's on the subject a imdb and those who created the credits on the broadcast and DVDs that they are wrong. You can still be a creator when you come up with the original idea and/or characters. I think all the other sources rightfully credit RWH as a developer.

RHW has admitted that Roddenberry's notes amounted to very, very little. Some names like Dylan Hunt, Harper (I think), and a few scraps of concepts. Roddenberry's name was attached for largely promotional reasons. RHW is the true creator of Andromeda.

If you want a source, I can give you this thread: http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=28187

Which is huge, I'm relatively sure RHW answers a question in there where he says how few Roddenberry's notes amounted to... Unfortunately, I cannot pinpoint where because it has been a year or two since I've read the thread. But, still, if you like Andromeda it's an interesting look behind the scenes and what could have been if RHW stayed on board. If you've never read the short play in one act "Coda" you should too.

 

[rramarr]

OK well tell all those authority's on the subject a imdb and those who created the credits on the broadcast and DVDs that they are wrong. You can still be a creator when you come up with the original idea and/or characters. I think all the other sources rightfully credit RWH as a developer.

RHW has admitted that Roddenberry's notes amounted to very, very little. Some names like Dylan Hunt, Harper (I think), and a few scraps of concepts. Roddenberry's name was attached for largely promotional reasons. RHW is the true creator of Andromeda.

If you want a source, I can give you this thread: http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=28187

Which is huge, I'm relatively sure RHW answers a question in there where he says how few Roddenberry's notes amounted to... Unfortunately, I cannot pinpoint where because it has been a year or two since I've read the thread. But, still, if you like Andromeda it's an interesting look behind the scenes and what could have been if RHW stayed on board. If you've never read the short play in one act "Coda" you should too.

Good look out Bud. Yeah I'm aware that RHW may have placed more of the story together then Gene, but that was not really my point. I was only saying Gene created the idea and Robert developed it the rest of the way. I like giving credit where credit is due. Besides the show was for the most part a failure and I was trying to find people's reasons for why they thought it fail - that's my only point on this thread.

 

[Pilot Ace]

Good look out Bud. Yeah I'm aware that RHW may have placed more of the story together then Gene, but that was not really my point. I was only saying Gene created the idea and Robert developed it the rest of the way. I like giving credit where credit is due. Besides the show was for the most part a failure and I was trying to find people's reasons for why they thought it fail - that's my only point on this thread.

Ideas are worth little to nothing. Everyone has ideas. It's turning the idea into a workable product that has true relevance.

As far as I'm concerned, RHW is the creator of Andromeda.

It failed because the creator, the one with the vision, was kicked off and people who had no idea why people liked the show were given the reigns. Simple.

Read "Coda" if you haven't, it's great.

 

[Mr Light]

My understanding from the time of the show was that RHW basically took five sentences of information from Roddenberry and the rest was of his own making.

 

[rramarr]

Don't get me wrong I am a RHW fan for his other work. I'm an aspiring writer myself so I like to look at his technical work on his screenplays - he's one of a half dozen screenwriters that I like to read for reference purposes. Still I have to take this all with a grain of salt. Gene was dead and I don't know what Majel has to say about what was used of Gene's work and why RHW left the show. It did not sound too amiable. So maybe Gene got the ol' "Gene only had a few scribbles of work - it was all me me me (RHW)." So did Majel allow RHW to use Gene only as a springboard? RHW created the work but did not protect and copyright his creation enough to not get kicked off the production staff? Again, it's not about that history. I have read Coda years ago as I have all his work and it only made me more of a fan of RHW and Andromeda. I too think shows should have a limit to story arcs and be more episodic so new viewers don't have to be lost coming in the middle - so I would have decided with Majel and Sorbo, but employ some better writers to continue the series.

You guys are great thanks for the feedback!

 

[Mr Light]

As I distantly recall, RHW voluntarily left the show when it became clear to him that the Tribune execs were never going to let him tell his story properly and would continue to dilute it all away. I think Sorbo was partially to blame as well, I remember in between S1/2 there were interviews where he said RHW is great but the stories are so confusing! We're gonna simplify it next year!

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

OK well tell all those authority's on the subject a imdb and those who created the credits on the broadcast and DVDs that they are wrong.

There are no "authorities" on IMDB. And credits are a matter of contract and marketing, not handed down as God's truth.

I like giving credit where credit is due.

Then you should give up on insisting that Roddenberry substantially created this show and give RHW proper credit. Except for contracts and the promotional value of the Roddenberry name it should have been called "Robert H. Wolfe's Andromeda."

 

[rramarr]

OK well tell all those authority's on the subject a imdb and those who created the credits on the broadcast and DVDs that they are wrong.

There are no "authorities" on IMDB. And credits are a matter of contract and marketing, not handed down as God's truth.

I like giving credit where credit is due.

Then you should give up on insisting that Roddenberry substantially created this show and give RHW proper credit. Except for contracts and the promotional value of the Roddenberry name it should have been called "Robert H. Wolfe's Andromeda."

Can you quote me where I said SUBSTANTIALLY Roddenbury created the show? The show (ADV Films and Tribune) substantially credits Roddenbury as the creator of the show. Why are you trying to argue? RHW created every aspect of the show. Gene a scribble writer, a passing thought in the show, and he doesn't even know how to spell Andromeda. Does that make you feel better? Jeez so defensive over nothing... oh maybe you created the show with RHW. Why didn't you say so??? Of course RHW was the only one we can credit with creating the show and he also designed the ship, did the makeup, etc., He was the man!!! and I have seen the error of my ways.

 

[Mysterion]

Andromeda would be regarded as a classic of the genre if two things had happened:

1) RHW was allowed to oversee the entire series rather than just the first two season.

2) If Andromeda had been given the same kind of budget that recent Star Trek series had been given.

Even given the faults it has as-is, Andromeda is still a fairly entertaining series. Not high art or anything, but not a bad way to spend time in front of the tube.

As t the where does Roddenberry leave off and RHW pick-up in the creation of the series, RHW said this:

No. I don't have them [Roddenberry's notes]. Majel loaned them to me and I gave them back when I finished.

To break it down:

Gene: Sentient Starship. Hero named Dylan Hunt frozen in time for 300 years. Civilization fallen. Hunt must fix. Genetically engineered human bad guys. The name "Harper."

Me: Everything else.

 

[Mr Light]

I didn't mind the sub-budget when I watched in the first two seasons. It was part of the charm! Even the horrible looking Than in the pilot. I'd rather see a SF show attempt something big and fail than just do endless bottle shows (like Terminator is doing this year).

 

[Mysterion]

I didn't mind the sub-budget when I watched in the first two seasons. It was part of the charm! Even the horrible looking Than in the pilot. I'd rather see a SF show attempt something big and fail than just do endless bottle shows (like Terminator is doing this year).

I agree with you. I think too many folks get too caught up in the special effects and such and totally miss the story being told. I can put up with low-budget production if the story is good. But all the high-budget CGi in the world won't save a bad story, IMO.

Andromeda was low-budget, but it's heart was in the right place (at least in the first two seasons), and i give them a lot of credit for effort.

 

[cylkoth]

I didn't mind the sub-budget when I watched in the first two seasons. It was part of the charm! Even the horrible looking Than in the pilot. I'd rather see a SF show attempt something big and fail than just do endless bottle shows (like Terminator is doing this year).

I agree with you. I think too many folks get too caught up in the special effects and such and totally miss the story being told. I can put up with low-budget production if the story is good. But all the high-budget CGi in the world won't save a bad story, IMO.

Andromeda was low-budget, but it's heart was in the right place (at least in the first two seasons), and i give them a lot of credit for effort.

I loved Blake's 7 despite the production values...the BBC style videotape studio scenes with 16mm filmed location and effects work. It was a superior show nevertheless, and I loved DROM in the same way. The stories, the ideas and worldbuilding on display in the early seasons put the big budget then current Trek shows to shame. ENT may have had the money for spetacle, but Andromeda got all the brains.

 

[Praetor]

Andromeda had potential, but it was at first hampered by low production values and then just crappy writing.

I loved the world that GR/RHW created. I remember reading the All Systems University descriptions for each species, technology, history and there were some really well thought out ideas and some interesting races that could've rivaled anything we saw on Trek, B5, or Star Wars.

But the production values-the horrible Michael Jackson Thriller uniforms in the pilot, and the shoddy makeup work throughout the first season (and a good part of the entire series) put a damper on my enthusiasm. Also, they didn't focus a lot on some of the aliens described in the ASL-like the Than, outside of the brief appearance of the crewmen that was killed. I did like the Magog and the Nietzscheans-I thought they both got pretty fleshed out. I also liked the quotes at the beginning of each episode-it added at least some surface depth that was lacking in most of the episodes.

Another thing that hurt Andromeda was they pretty much abandoned the premise of the show and turned it into Hunt and his band of merry misfits having space adventures while doing the restoration of the Commonwealth offscreen. There weren't even any great debates about why the Commonwealth should be restored in the first place or how exactly was Hunt going to do it with one ship, no matter how advanced?

The fourth and fifth seasons were really abyssmal (sp), turning Dylan into a god like figure was crap writing, that had no real build up, unlike Sisko's Prophet parentage.

Overall I thought the cast'/crew was pretty good. My favorite was Tyr. I thought he was a pretty interesting character. I miss the Nietzscheans and Magog. I wish they had been in a better show.

Good assessment. I couldn't agree more, particularly in regard to poor production values undermining a lot of good ideas.

I'd add that I also liked the design of the Andromeda Ascendant herself, the general concepts about the ship and her fleet and the naming scheme for them. There was a smaller frigate design I also remember liking, but a bigger battleship design that was far less impressive to me.

 

[Mr Light]

Doctor Who (original) is another good example of horrible production designs but still an enjoyable show.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

How come Gene Roddenbury/Majel Barrett/Robert Hewitt Wolfe's Andromeda does not seem to get the respect as his other creations? It appears the Trek fans will even skip over discussing this series and go to non-Gene Roddenbury shows.

Because it sucks. Ot at least Seasons 3-5 do. The main problem: After the second season, it wasn't Robert Hewitt Wolfe's Andromeda anymore. And his successors didn't seem to have a clue how to produce any TV series, let alone science fiction.

Tribune managed to screw up every "posthumous" Roddenberry series. Just look at "Earth: Final Conflict" which also turned into utter crap after its promising first season.

 

[Roberto]

I agree that the first 1.5 seasons were very promising and then the show went into the dumper.....I did meet a lot of nice people on the original Slipstreambbs.

 

[Praetor]

The main problem: After the second season, it wasn't Robert Hewitt Wolfe's Andromeda anymore. And his successors didn't seem to have a clue how to produce any TV series, let alone science fiction.

Tribune managed to screw up every "posthumous" Roddenberry series. Just look at "Earth: Final Conflict" which also turned into utter crap after its promising first season.

Nailed it.