Ancient Aliens, Yes or No?

[Alidar Jarok]

The Pyramids have a clear design evolution. We know the steps they made that led up to Giza. We know the hurdles they had to overcome and that they figured them out through experimentation.

When we refer to ancient advancements. Generally, when we say "we don't know how they made them" we mean literally just that. We don't know how they made them. We can come up with theories using the technology of the time that would have been effective (generally involving amounts of manpower that would make a modern person shudder at the excess involved), but I don't think most scientist believe that it would have been impossible to build with their technology, just that we can't prove the methodology.

 

[Amaris]

The Pyramids have a clear design evolution. We know the steps they made that led up to Giza. We know the hurdles they had to overcome and that they figured them out through experimentation.

When we refer to ancient advancements. Generally, when we say "we don't know how they made them" we mean literally just that. We don't know how they made them. We can come up with theories using the technology of the time that would have been effective (generally involving amounts of manpower that would make a modern person shudder at the excess involved), but I don't think most scientist believe that it would have been impossible to build with their technology, just that we can't prove the methodology.

Exactly, and since research and discovery continue day by day, we do eventually learn the methodology. It's not like some kind of hidden mystical secret that the "Ancients" held with some kind of foreknowledge.

 

[Galileo7]

possible

 

[Lookingglassman]

The Pyramids have a clear design evolution. We know the steps they made that led up to Giza. We know the hurdles they had to overcome and that they figured them out through experimentation.

When we refer to ancient advancements. Generally, when we say "we don't know how they made them" we mean literally just that. We don't know how they made them. We can come up with theories using the technology of the time that would have been effective (generally involving amounts of manpower that would make a modern person shudder at the excess involved), but I don't think most scientist believe that it would have been impossible to build with their technology, just that we can't prove the methodology.

Exactly, and since research and discovery continue day by day, we do eventually learn the methodology. It's not like some kind of hidden mystical secret that the "Ancients" held with some kind of foreknowledge.

The greys did it because they had nothing better to do than to help humans stack stones on top of one another.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Let's set aside 'supernatural' for the moment. I was not suggesting that either the pyramids or the so-called 'coral castle' were built using anything like that.

What I was trying to get at in those particular cases is that they could have been built using scientific principles that were discovered, lost, and then found again.

I would not go so far as to say that the principles involved were 'secret,' but perhaps simply not widely known within the general population.

The theory that the pyramids were built using manpower, ropes, logs, etc is one that I am certainly willing to consider, because it has not thus far been disproved.

But what of this man with the 'coral castle?' He did not use those materials, nor did he have large numbers of workers in his employ. There were plenty of people around the area who would have known if large numbers of people were feverishly scurrying all over his property for long periods of time.

So, how was he able to build it?

 

[paudemge]

I really like the idea of aliens and lost technology, but I think the coral castle could certainly be completed by simple machines and few people, coral is not the same as granite so I don't think massive numbers of people would be needed

 

[Amaris]

Let's set aside 'supernatural' for the moment. I was not suggesting that either the pyramids or the so-called 'coral castle' were built using anything like that.

What I was trying to get at in those particular cases is that they could have been built using scientific principles that were discovered, lost, and then found again.

I would not go so far as to say that the principles involved were 'secret,' but perhaps simply not widely known within the general population.

The theory that the pyramids were built using manpower, ropes, logs, etc is one that I am certainly willing to consider, because it has not thus far been disproved.

But what of this man with the 'coral castle?' He did not use those materials, nor did he have large numbers of workers in his employ. There were plenty of people around the area who would have known if large numbers of people were feverishly scurrying all over his property for long periods of time.

So, how was he able to build it?

Let's look at the data we have on hand:

1] It took 31 years to build.
2] He never allowed anyone to observe him actually building it.
3] No one saw him moving the coral.
4] Photographs of pulleys and winches have been taken at the coral castle site. (images)

Now, you tell me, what do you think is likely? A coral (by the way, coral is not as heavy as it looks, as it is porous) structure built over a long span of time using pulleys and winches, or a mystical ancient method using secret, unknown technologies?

 

[Jadzia]

But what of this man with the 'coral castle?' [...] how was he able to build it?

I'm naturally suspicious of that story because of the secrecy involved in it's construction. He worked alone allowing no observers, and he has kept tight lipped about his methods.

I doubt a small lightweight man working on his own without powered machinery could overcome the friction the stones made with the ground, let alone maneuver them into place and tip them onto their sides.

 

[Amaris]

But what of this man with the 'coral castle?' [...] how was he able to build it?

I'm naturally suspicious of that story because of the secrecy involved in it's construction. He worked alone allowing no observers, and he has kept tight lipped about his methods.

I doubt a small lightweight man working on his own without powered machinery could overcome the friction the stones made with the ground, let alone maneuver them into place and tip them onto their sides.

Yep. In the images I linked in my post, the photographer explains where you can see a motorized hoist in some images, where the pieces of coral could be lifted.

There's no mystery at all for anyone who gives the Coral Castle more than a cursory glance, and is willing to put the pieces together.

 

[paudemge]

He probably still could have done it without motorized machinery, but that just makes it all more easy.
Here is some retire guy that decided to see if he could move heavy things by himself, it advertises his dvd, but I've seen this on discovery or nova or something:

http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/

 

[Amaris]

He probably still could have done it without motorized machinery, but that just makes it all more easy.
Here is some retire guy that decided to see if he could move heavy things by himself, it advertises his dvd, but I've seen this on discovery or nova or something:

http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/

Exactly. For some reason, people ascribe mystical powers or secrets to older cultures, because many of them make this connection that "old" = "primitive". As we saw with the Romans, ancient cultures had ways of getting things done, and they were no more mystical or secret than our methods are today.

 

[paudemge]

Now, you tell me, what do you think is likely? A coral (by the way, coral is not as heavy as it looks, as it is porous) structure built over a long span of time using pulleys and winches, or a mystical ancient method using secret, unknown technologies?

This is basically the question I ask myself or anybody when talking about the supernatural.

Also on the pyamids of giza, I thought it was not pretty well established wasn't nearly as many people as original envisioned, and they probably weren't slaves.

 

[Amaris]

Now, you tell me, what do you think is likely? A coral (by the way, coral is not as heavy as it looks, as it is porous) structure built over a long span of time using pulleys and winches, or a mystical ancient method using secret, unknown technologies?

This is basically the question I ask myself or anybody when talking about the supernatural.

It's the best way to approach such events, since there will be too many willing to automatically believe it's true. It's always better to question first, in such cases, before giving in to supernatural explanations that don't hold any merit.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Let's set aside 'supernatural' for the moment. I was not suggesting that either the pyramids or the so-called 'coral castle' were built using anything like that.

What I was trying to get at in those particular cases is that they could have been built using scientific principles that were discovered, lost, and then found again.

I would not go so far as to say that the principles involved were 'secret,' but perhaps simply not widely known within the general population.

The theory that the pyramids were built using manpower, ropes, logs, etc is one that I am certainly willing to consider, because it has not thus far been disproved.

But what of this man with the 'coral castle?' He did not use those materials, nor did he have large numbers of workers in his employ. There were plenty of people around the area who would have known if large numbers of people were feverishly scurrying all over his property for long periods of time.

So, how was he able to build it?

Let's look at the data we have on hand:

1] It took 31 years to build.
2] He never allowed anyone to observe him actually building it.
3] No one saw him moving the coral.
4] Photographs of pulleys and winches have been taken at the coral castle site. (images)

Now, you tell me, what do you think is likely? A coral (by the way, coral is not as heavy as it looks, as it is porous) structure built over a long span of time using pulleys and winches, or a mystical ancient method using secret, unknown technologies?

Seems like there are quite a number of questions being raised by people on the site you linked to regarding the coral castle.

My question is this: There is so much interest in the pyramids and similar structures today....if the manner in which they were built is so simple and easily explained, why are not similar structures being built today? Why is it not rather commonplace? At the very least, why not a few....to say, 'See, there is how it was done. We have shown it, you have watched us, case closed.'

???

 

[paudemge]

[
My question is this: There is so much interest in the pyramids and similar structures today....if the manner in which they were built is so simple and easily explained, why are not similar structures being built today? Why is it not rather commonplace? At the very least, why not a few....to say, 'See, there is how it was done. We have shown it, you have watched us, case closed.'

???

I think probably because there is no reason to build pyramids, either with simple methods or even with massive amounts of automation, the time,effort and material would probably be better used to build office buildings, skyscrapers and roads.

I really didn't think there was any serious disagreement on how the pyramids where build.

 

[Amaris]

Seems like there are quite a number of questions being raised by people on the site you linked to regarding the coral castle.

So? That is an Argumentum ad populum fallacy. Just because quite a number of people have chosen not to explore the very obvious and very available circumstances surrounding the building of the Coral Castle does not mean they are anywhere near correct. It is important to examine the evidence at hand, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest a completely reasonable and likely answer to the "mystery".

My question is this: There is so much interest in the pyramids and similar structures today....if the manner in which they were built is so simple and easily explained, why are not similar structures being built today? Why is it not rather commonplace? At the very least, why not a few....to say, 'See, there is how it was done. We have shown it, you have watched us, case closed.'

???

That statement makes no sense. You're suggesting that because people aren't out building pyramids, that there must be some other explanation for the Coral Castle.

 

[TrickyDickie]

It's always better to question first, in such cases, before giving in to supernatural explanations that don't hold any merit.

See, that might be where folks are misunderstanding me. I actually couldn't agree more. I question all of it and don't "give in" to any of it. If a scientific explanation works, that's all well and fine. For me, the balance lies with allowing an audience for non-scientific theories as well, without simply ridiculing them before giving them a chance.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

My question is this: There is so much interest in the pyramids and similar structures today....if the manner in which they were built is so simple and easily explained, why are not similar structures being built today? Why is it not rather commonplace? At the very least, why not a few....to say, 'See, there is how it was done. We have shown it, you have watched us, case closed.'

Does anyone believe that their leader is a deity who needs to a giant tomb in order to reach the next world and be cared for? The Pyramids practically bankrupted the Old Kingdom. Khufu was able to do it, but not many followed. The Middle Kingdom was nowhere near as rich as the Old Kingdom and many resources were diverted from the Pharaoh to the priests at Thebes. The New Kingdom also had the problem of conflict with the Priests and many of their resources were also tied down in keeping their client kingdoms in the Levant and Palestine secure. Still, Rammesses II had some impressive monuments built all through Egypt and Akhenaten built a pretty cool city. Both were a little more practical.

Also, keep in mind that, out of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, none of them exist in their original form and only the Pyramids exist in any form.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Seems like there are quite a number of questions being raised by people on the site you linked to regarding the coral castle.

So? That is an Argumentum ad populum fallacy. Just because quite a number of people have chosen not to explore the very obvious and very available circumstances surrounding the building of the Coral Castle does not mean they are anywhere near correct. It is important to examine the evidence at hand, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest a completely reasonable and likely answer to the "mystery".

My question is this: There is so much interest in the pyramids and similar structures today....if the manner in which they were built is so simple and easily explained, why are not similar structures being built today? Why is it not rather commonplace? At the very least, why not a few....to say, 'See, there is how it was done. We have shown it, you have watched us, case closed.'

???

That statement makes no sense. You're suggesting that because people aren't out building pyramids, that there must be some other explanation for the Coral Castle.

Not "must."

Might....as in a possibility, not an absolute.

It's just rather interesting that not one project stands as a clear demonstration that people today can replicate such things.

 

[Amaris]

See, that might be where folks are misunderstanding me. I actually couldn't agree more. I question all of it and don't "give in" to any of it. If a scientific explanation works, that's all well and fine. For me, the balance lies with allowing an audience for non-scientific theories as well, without simply ridiculing them before giving them a chance.

I disagree. You wouldn't give equal time to your doctor and a psychic when being diagnosed with an illness, why give equal time to theories that have no basis in fact?