Amok Time - A True Classic!

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Admiral Archer, May 9, 2019.

  1. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always end up dating women who look like the three witches from Catspaw myself and it's been noted, Doctor, by a lot of my comrades! :wah:
    JB
     
  2. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Playing devil's advocate here - why should T'Pring marry a man she doesn't like?
    I would support any woman/man wanting to escape an arranged marriage.

    However T'Pring seemed to be without honour. All about the money, property. If she'd just wanted to be with Stonn then he should have been her champion.
    I don't agree that she was flawlessly logical. She could have ended up being Kirk's property. And if he had been forced to kill Spock I don't think he would have let T'Pring free to go off into the sunset with Stonn.
     
  3. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    Stonn apparently did not have an influential family/clan, nor any wealth/properties, hence he was not a good catch. In Vulcan society, he was a gigolo. :vulcan:
     
  4. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Stonn was there for T'Pring and not going to be returning to a starship for year in and year out without a word! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  5. Mrs. Silvercrest

    Mrs. Silvercrest Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I just think it is great that the Vulcans do something that is not logical. And it seems right somehow that how they find a mate is not based on logic. Sometimes arranged marriages like Spock's was. Sometimes a heat of a moment thing like I think Spock's parents marriage was.
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

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    Disgusting.

    So tired of the endless blanket use of the b word to describe any woman who isn't sweetness and light. The "hot" qualifier just makes it worse.
     
  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Can you imagine how Vulcans select mates that have not been arranged! Two Vulcans who have been working closely together for many years and one decides to say that we should be married and the other asks why, the first replies that logic dictates it due to their getting on at work and close friendship! When the other thinks about it, she soon realises that he is correct and that she cannot find a suitable reason to refuse!!! If only it was that easy here on earth now or in the future!!! :lol::lol::lol:
    JB
     
  8. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fucking chill
     
  9. Admiral Archer

    Admiral Archer Commander Red Shirt

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    Guys, let's try to be civil. I tend to think T'Pring could have been much nicer, but Spock didn't seem to care that she rejected him by the end of the episode, and as Maurice said, throwing the b word around any time a woman doesn't act likeable is not the answer. I don't want to see this thread shut down over something stupid. Let's try to get along, and agree that this was a great hour of Star Trek! :)
     
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

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    <looks for Moderator flag next to name, doesn't see one>
    Yeah, no.
     
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  11. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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    Yeah, the casual use of "bitch" and "hot bitch" is not great. Wouldn't mind seeing that go away.

    hx5LePO.jpg
     
  12. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The word "Bitch" was used in context of the conversation
    A previous poster used the words (paraphrasing) Cold Hearted Bitch regarding a female character
    I simply said that said character was hot, not cold hearted
    So I used the expression "Hot bitch", basically quoting the B word whaich had already been used
    It's not terminology that I use in every day language regarding women, and if anyone is offended then I apologise
    But really, read the posts leading up to mine, and try not to be so offended, it was a misguided attempt at humour and I've seen plenty other examples on here of opinions that I wouldn't voice,
     
  13. T'Bonz

    T'Bonz Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

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    Yeah, it didn't amuse this woman.

    It gets really tiresome for women to be constantly referred to based on their looks and whether they're "nice" according to a man, or not. Women don't all look like Hollywood starlets and we shouldn't have to look like them.

    I'm not a fan of T'Pring, but it would seem to me in-story that she didn't want to marry a half-human and had already found someone she felt would be better for her than Spock. By human standards, the behavior she displayed was nasty, but as even Spock admitted, by Vulcan standards, it was logical. T'Pring wanted her man and she didn't want to risk him in battle, so she picked someone about whom she didn't know or care. It's quite possible she took advantage of the presence of Kirk which would have come as a gift for her, allowing her to safeguard Stonn.
     
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Admiral Premium Member

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    You wrote:

    Which isn't what you're spinning it as at all. Sorry.

    EDIT: Just saw T'Bonz replied. No need for me to comment further.
     
  15. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    T'Pring mentioned that Spock's legend was well known upon Vulcan and that she didn't want to be the wife of as legend! A simple farm and a hard working husband was all that she wanted! However long Stonn could keep that going on for anyways! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  16. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not spinning anything pal, I apologised, if you aren't happy with that then so be it.
    Maybe humour is an alien concept to you.
    Have a nice day
     
  17. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was a joke
    In reply and in context to a previous poster who had already used the B bomb
    And no one says women all have to look like Hollywood starlets at all.
     
  18. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    In Blish's novelisation there were some differences.
    In the televised show Spock begged T'Pau to release Kirk from the fight but in the novelisation T;Pau offered Spock the chance to call off the fight but Spock (in his maddened state) refused.
    And T'Pring said she didn't want Spock because Stonn was more easily controlled. (and that she would

    I'm assuming that was in the original script.? I wonder what Sturgeon's attitude to this change was.
     
  19. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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    Enough already!

    You don't need to keep rationalizing and justifying yourself.

    Simply accept the feedback and move on.
     
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  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    As shot, the episode really doesn't convey the idea that T'Pring would have wanted Stonn. Refusing to let Stonn fight is likely to cost her that particular relationship, and she seems fine with it. But it is a logical way to wiggle out of the forced marriage with Spock, while not doing significant harm to Stonn in the end.

    Spock isn't likely to be physically harmed in fighting and killing Kirk, either. But there will be major damage to his career and psyche, which is something T'Pring might have avoided if she tried. That she didn't fits the pattern of her being dismayed by Spock's career specifically: she can't easily hurt the Elders who forced this union, but she can channel her revenge at Spock, and let some of it bleed to T'Pau as well.

    Is vengeance illogical? Only if it carries consequences. And if T'Pring is capable of it, then so no doubt is T'Pau, and a vendetta cycle is likely, in true Old Vulcan fashion. So probably there would be harsh sanctions for attempted vengeance in the Vulcan society - and given the severity and delicate nature of the specific matter at hand, both politically and by Vulcan tradition, T'Pring might simply disappear once Kirk dies and Spock retires in disgrace... So possibly not an ice-cold mastermind at all, but rather just a desperate woman driven into a corner where she has to take a gamble that may well cost her her life.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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