Am I the only person in the world who likes Batman and Robin?

[Extrocomp]

Everyone thinks Batman should be dark and gritty, but I think a campy intepretation is just as valid and a lot more fun. You can make Batman as serious and edgy as you want, but at his core, Batman is a rich dude who dresses up as a bat to fight an evil clown. And that's a pretty campy concept.

I liked Mr. Freeze, both his tragic backstory and his bad ice puns. I liked the subplot of Alfred having the same disease as Freeze's wife. And I like stories where Batman fights metahumans more than those where he fights regular humans. The Dark Knight Trilogy was a version of Batman who was ashamed of being a comic book character, while the 90s movies embraced it.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It got the same IMDb score as Section 31, so it seems possible you're on your own on this.

(Batman & Mr. Freeze: SubZero was pretty good though.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

If Elle McPherson had played Talia, and no on is saying that she didn't, that may have meant that Ra's al Ghul would have also had an Australian accent?

 

[Extrocomp]

If Elle McPherson had played Talia, and no on is saying that she didn't,

Elle Macpherson is credited as Julie Madison who has nothing to do with Talia in the comics. Are you referring to some fan theory?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Elle Macpherson is credited as Julie Madison who has nothing to do with Talia in the comics. Are you referring to some fan theory?

I said "if".

 

[Extrocomp]

You also said "and no one is saying that she didn't".

 

[Guy Gardener]

You also said "and no one is saying that she didn't".

"Realistically" no one did, because my original conceit is ridiculous.

Unless you want to say it right now, it's probably still never been said out loud.

In the history of the universe where anyone has ever been typing, this impossible phrase has only just minutes ago finally been typed: "Elle McPherson is Not Talia Al Ghul".

It's historic.

We are famous.

 

[Christopher]

B&R has a lot wrong with it, but it's not as bad as its reputation. I think George Clooney could've been one of the best live-action Bruce Waynes if he'd had a better script. (Though, full disclosure, I'm a little biased because his father Nick Clooney was my favorite local news anchor in my youth and a casual friend of my father.)

I respect the effort to adapt Paul Dini's tragic reinvention of Mr. Freeze, but Schwarzenegger was badly miscast. Imagine Patrick Stewart in the role, say. Uma Thurman was really sexy as Mae West Poison Ivy, though other aspects of how the character was interpreted were not great. John Glover was wasted, as was the character of Bane.

And yeah, there's nothing wrong in principle with a campy take on Batman, but it felt kind of old-fashioned and out of step to revert to that in the 1990s, when Batman comics had gone all-in on the kind of gritty street-level crime drama the movies didn't begin to emulate until Nolan came along, and when Batman: The Animated Series was bringing a largely serious, sophisticated approach to Batman in animation. Not to mention that Schumacher's approach to camp was so overproduced and excessive that it diminished the appeal.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It was a big pantomime toy commercial with neon and rubber nipples and a script entirely constructed out of ice puns, and that certainly made it distinctive. Though aiming the film at an audience younger than the audience of the cartoon or comic books felt to me like a misunderstanding of the property at best and a disregard for it at worst.

It's pretty depressing how closely the Batman 1989 series mirrored the Superman 1978 sequels' descent into trash, even though it wasn't due to a lack of money this time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was a big pantomime toy commercial with neon and rubber nipples and a script entirely constructed out of ice puns, and that certainly made it distinctive. Though aiming the film at an audience younger than the audience of the cartoon or comic books felt to me like a misunderstanding of the property at best and a disregard for it at worst.

It's pretty depressing how closely the Batman 1989 series mirrored the Superman 1978 sequels' descent into trash, even though it wasn't due to a lack of money this time.

Burton told us many times that he was fired because McDonalds did not sell enough Happy Meals.

Ronald McDonald, Joel Shuemacher, Joel's balls, and a well oiled desk draw came to a perfect understanding.

 

[Set Harth]

 

[tomalak301]

I feel like I'm one of the select few who likes Batman Forever, so like what you like. As for B&R, I wonder if it could have been improved with someone else playing Mr. Freeze. I'm actually a little surprised with all the Batmans that have come out since, they haven't tried Freeze again.

 

[Lord Garth]

I saw Batman & Robin in the theater once. Didn't like it at the time. 10 years later, I watched it with some friends (not my idea) and I still didn't like it. But with other people around and being able to talk since we weren't in the theater, it made for great MST3K-style fodder. So that made it kind of work... but I have no desire to see it again.

Not only that, but it retroactively took Batman Forever down with it too. I liked Batman Forever at the time it was released. But once the dust finally settled, I thought to myself, "That wasn't so great either."

 

[Christopher]

Not only that, but it retroactively took Batman Forever down with it too. I liked Batman Forever at the time it was released. But once the dust finally settled, I thought to myself, "That wasn't so great either."

I liked Forever the first time, in large part because I felt it got Batman right in ways the Burton movies didn't. I cheered when Kilmer's Batman saved a henchman from falling down an open elevator shaft, when Keaton's would probably have pushed him. But it hasn't aged well for me either. Both villains were badly handled. Its one-note, '66-style Two-Face was a waste of a rich character and a fine actor, and it got the Riddler wrong by making him a knockoff Joker (although I respect that they hired New York Times Puzzlemaster Will Shortz to come up with Nygma's riddles). Aside from the story issues, Val Kilmer never worked for me as Bruce/Batman.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I feel like I'm one of the select few who likes Batman Forever, so like what you like. As for B&R, I wonder if it could have been improved with someone else playing Mr. Freeze. I'm actually a little surprised with all the Batmans that have come out since, they haven't tried Freeze again.

It took them three decades to try Robin again too.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

And yeah, there's nothing wrong in principle with a campy take on Batman, but it felt kind of old-fashioned and out of step to revert to that in the 1990s, when Batman comics had gone all-in on the kind of gritty street-level crime drama the movies didn't begin to emulate until Nolan came along.

Viewed as a Batman '66 movie with a 90s blockbuster budget, I enjoy Batman and Robin. On those terms, it works. Unfortunately, that's not what the audience wanted, and I'm not sure why the studio greenlit that.

I agree with most of the rest of what Christopher wrote. Clooney is solid in the role. I don't mind Schwarzenegger. The big miscast, imho, is Alicia Silverstone.

 

[Christopher]

The big miscast, imho, is Alicia Silverstone.

That, and it was weird to make Batgirl Alfred's niece instead of Gordon's daughter. Although I kind of get it in the context of the Burton/Schumacher series, in which Commissioner Gordon was reduced to a bit player -- which is one of my biggest problems with the series.

Incidentally, Silverstone's Batgirl costume was repainted and reused as Dina Meyer's Batgirl costume in the short-lived Birds of Prey TV series. Although the TV series made more use of the cowl than the movie did.

 

[Set Harth]

It took them three decades to try Robin again too.

Does that mean we're getting Robin next year?

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Does that mean we're getting Robin next year?

Probably not next year, but The Brave and the Bold is going to be the first 'James Gunn DCU' Batman movie and it's going to feature Damian.

 

[Saul]

It got the same IMDb score as Section 31, so it seems possible you're on your own on this

It's way better than Section 31.