Am I crazy for saying that TNG is the best show of ALL time of any TV show ever?

[Starflight]

Not sure about best show ever - it's only my third favourite Star Trek - but it is one of the most comfortable and familiar shows ever. There's never a time when it's not appropriate to have TNG on in the background. Seeing Jonathan Frakes' face immediately puts me in some kind of low-intensity dopamine state.

Probably worth asking here rather than making its own topic, but is the reception of TNG starting to shift? A couple decades ago it was widely considered Objectively Good TV and Peak Trek, but nowadays it feels like in a lot of fandom spaces there's more criticism of it than praise at times.

 

[NigellaDeanna20]

There's just something about this show that just never gets old to me, no matter what episode (yes, even the shitty ones). I can watch any episode over and over and I still feel the same emotions I always did the first time I watched said episode. I can't tell you how many times I've seen all episodes throughout the years ever since I first watched the show as a kid back when it was actually airing in 1987.

Every time I watch The Inner Light, I FEEL the dread and sadness that that ancient civilization felt when their world was about to end.

Every time I watch The Best of Both Worlds I FEEL the emotional and physical trauma Picard endured as Locutus (that single tear that drips out of his eye while he is being assimilated is powerful stuff), as well as the PTSD he was suffering in the follow-up episode "Family."

Every time I watch Chain of Command I FEEL inspired when Picard screams out, "THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!" at the end when being released from his torment.

Every time I watch Yesterday's Enterprise I clap when Picard says, "Let's make sure history never forgets the name Enterprise."

Every time I watch Deja Q I shed a tear when Data gets to experience what it's like to laugh.

There are just so many great and iconic moments in this show that, quite frankly, no other show in history can match IMHO. It's the only show I've ever bought the complete series of on disc (Blu-ray, in this instance). Sure, I love me some Sopranos, Game of Thrones, Seinfeld, Cheers, Breaking Bad, The Twilight Zone, The Wire and OF COURSE TOS and DS9, but there's just something about TNG that no other show can hold a candle towards IMHO.

I absolute agree and I love TNG too, warts and all and its my fave Trek series. However, to try and say that it's the best tv show of all time? Well, thats quite honestly a bit of a stretch to say the least.

 

[DonIago]

Probably worth asking here rather than making its own topic, but is the reception of TNG starting to shift? A couple decades ago it was widely considered Objectively Good TV and Peak Trek, but nowadays it feels like in a lot of fandom spaces there's more criticism of it than praise at times.

I sometimes get the sense that the general reception of TNG has shifted, but there's also more and newer TV out there, both in general and Trek specifically; I can certainly understand how, for newer viewers in particular, TNG would feel dated by comparison. TOS must feel like a relic, though perhaps it's so removed that it's somewhat immune from the same criticisms because of course a show from the '60s would feel dated now.

 

[Herald252]

Not sure about best show ever - it's only my third favourite Star Trek - but it is one of the most comfortable and familiar shows ever. There's never a time when it's not appropriate to have TNG on in the background. Seeing Jonathan Frakes' face immediately puts me in some kind of low-intensity dopamine state.

Probably worth asking here rather than making its own topic, but is the reception of TNG starting to shift? A couple decades ago it was widely considered Objectively Good TV and Peak Trek, but nowadays it feels like in a lot of fandom spaces there's more criticism of it than praise at times.

I believe that those who love TNG have inflicted emotional harm on those who love NuTrek, and now they are seeking revenge. Even in a discussion meant to praise TNG, people are more inclined to degrade and mock it. Not to say the new and most active topics here.

I am sad to say that this platform is not for me, I would retreat to read news and that's it for me. I can't stand it when people can't even try to be positive. So, my final message here is this: TNG is objectively good television. Just look at how many people still attend conventions for the TNG cast and continue to appreciate it (may be not here, but there are fans out there). If you chose a profession because of it, or if it taught you how to be a good person, then that is something that other shows simply cannot achieve. Most shows can teach good manners, but not every show is created with the visionary passion for a better future that TNG possesses. The very idea of it is unique, the fact that NuTrek can't hold the bar for it and change cannon in representing Federation is prove enough for me that TNG is better, it was indeed boldly going where no one has gone before, or perhaps now.

 

[DonIago]

You really believe that fans of NuTrek are "seeking revenge" on people who love TNG for having "inflicted emotional harm" upon them in the past?

 

[Oddish]

Did we get the same crap from TOS groupies when TNG was new?

 

[Starflight]

I believe that those who love TNG have inflicted emotional harm on those who love NuTrek, and now they are seeking revenge. Even in a discussion meant to praise TNG, people are more inclined to degrade and mock it. Not to say the new and most active topics here.

I am sad to say that this platform is not for me, I would retreat to read news and that's it for me. I can't stand it when people can't even try to be positive. So, my final message here is this: TNG is objectively good television. Just look at how many people still attend conventions for the TNG cast and continue to appreciate it (may be not here, but there are fans out there). If you chose a profession because of it, or if it taught you how to be a good person, then that is something that other shows simply cannot achieve. Most shows can teach good manners, but not every show is created with the visionary passion for a better future that TNG possesses. The very idea of it is unique, the fact that NuTrek can't hold the bar for it and change cannon in representing Federation is prove enough for me that TNG is better, it was indeed boldly going where no one has gone before, or perhaps now.

I think some of the backlash to TNG is just a result of the show being damaged somewhat by age - some of the show's ethics are stuck in a very 1980s Western view of political correctness/cultural relativism that feels regressive today, and the characterisation of Picard in some scripts as a paternalistic, self-styled thespian-cum-philosopher feels risible more than admirable to many modern viewers. The production is also kind of wooden in a way that's possibly alienating to new viewers (although it's also part of what I like about it, so YMMV I suppose).

There's also just the typical backlash anything that's very highly praised gets - when people are telling new viewers that BoBW and The Inner Light are the best stories ever told on television, and the reality turns out to be that they're both just sort of alright, people end up souring on the show.

It is definitely held together by its utopianism and high-concept science fiction ideas, though, which I think will ultimately keep it fresher than NuTrek. Some people will still be watching TNG in 50 years; I'm not sure how many will be watching Discovery or even SNW.

 

[suarezguy]

Probably worth asking here rather than making its own topic, but is the reception of TNG starting to shift? A couple decades ago it was widely considered Objectively Good TV and Peak Trek, but nowadays it feels like in a lot of fandom spaces there's more criticism of it than praise at times.

I think it's always been considered and will always be considered polarizing, many do love both it and the original but it was so different that many do, will insist The Original Was The Best!, the Original that is 20 years older is the one that, shockingly, actually feels much less dated, more widely embraced.

Even from the original run there was some-to-considerable criticism that the characters were just too unrelatably idealized and some of the content too preachy, that's remained so and there has been increasing criticism that Picard is too preachy/pompous/annoying, not actually as right as he thinks he is, I think that's the only major change in reaction and even that change not really widespread.

I can certainly understand how, for newer viewers in particular, TNG would feel dated by comparison. TOS must feel like a relic, though perhaps it's so removed that it's somewhat immune from the same criticisms because of course a show from the '60s would feel dated now.

Yeah early '90s does feel like weird time in that in 2010s and even still now it doesn't feel like that long ago, it should still feel pretty in line with our now present era and styles and OTOH some nerds insist that certainly late '80s and even also early '90s certainly was long time ago, poke fun at other nerds that no it definitely isn't still current/modern era.

I do think 20 years is start of when something begins to feel old, 25, 30 years is when you can, should be real impressed when something really does hold up.

 

[Riley]

Crazy? No. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I prefer TOS and the six TOS films to everything that followed, with DS9 a close second. I also prefer the first two seasons of TNG to the boring, dull, bland, morally preachy, ultimately vapid episodes that made up the majority of the later seasons. We all have different takes on things.

 

[suarezguy]

TNG may have also declined a bit from that most people, even its big fans, have come to like, prefer having at least a little serialization, to not like that TNG was so not only episodic but also tending to preserve/restore the status quo (including in relationships, there being pretty minimal non-professional relationships let alone romantic relationships) but most people do regard that as only minor flaw and just the way TV was then, if you are really offput by that you would have to also be dismissive of most police/procedural shows before and through that time. And OTOH some or many people have also felt that serialization has gone way too far recently, do appreciate from before there being a mix with at least also some stand-alone episodes.

 

[Qonundrum]

Did we get the same crap from TOS groupies when TNG was new?

Yes, there were fans in 1987 that did not care for TOS due to the massive changes and "corrections" brought in (e.g. captain does not beam down because he has to stay with the ship, the dangers, etc, as spelled out in the premiere story). Granted, as much as season 1 has grown on me and as early as 1992 in fact, certain episodes - to this day - still remind that fans sometimes had a point, even back then. But to compare 1987 to 2017 (or 1967, whenever) isn't an even level playing field in terms of tv production and scripting either.

The first major formatting differences appeared in DS9, which also opened the door even more overtly to plotting that would push the boundaries of Trek's universe.

 

[Qonundrum]

We all have different takes on things.

^^this, x10000^42.

I also prefer the first two seasons of TNG to the boring, dull, bland, morally preachy, ultimately vapid episodes that made up the majority of the later seasons.

IMHO, the cutoff point to TNG would be later on in season 4, with the real oversimplified, one-sided soapbox sop starting in season 5 and not getting better until season 7, never mind wallpaper muzak putting a damper on most of them. Season 1 took a while, but grew on me as early as season 5's initial airing as it went into reruns. I think it's partially coincidental that Ron Jones' departure led to the series losing a creative spark but a lot of the scripts would not be elevated by Jones had he stuck around.

I say season 7, because they return to the sci-fi realm than the soapbox derby and produced some really neat episodes as a result. Seasons 2, 3, 4, and 7 pretty much are what I rewatch the most when I do. Followed by 1, then a handful of 5 and 6 as those two years are the flattest and most derivative. IMHO, of course.

I prefer TOS and the six TOS films to everything that followed,

TOS can be clunky at times, what with it creating the standard than refining/continuing it. But it is the most "out there" with sci-fi and rarely navel-gazes. And, yep, some episodes are heavy-handed or "on the nose". They're coincidentally the ones that many people at the time criticized for being too heavy-handed as well.

with DS9 a close second.

I've said it before and see no reason to change my belief yet on this: DS9 is spiritually closer to TOS than TNG was. TNG did fix some issues, added new storytelling hurdles, etc... but, for one example, Section 31 doesn't really fit into TNG's world at all - it arguably works in TOS better, partially because we know so little of the Federation and Star Trek's universe in those 79 episodes + 6 movies + pilot where bits of it were used in the show but otherwise never aired. Plus, TOS had the angry captain routine happen a few times too. Just not enough to make it the sort of trope (worn out or otherwise) that you'd otherwise want to avoid, like bathing with a bunch of paranoid skunks.

 

[Starflight]

I'm glad the early TNG fanclub is starting to assemble here! Personally my window for good TNG is basically seasons 2 - 4. There's like maybe 15 episodes total from the final three seasons that I pick on rewatches.

Season 1 is frustrating because so much of it is right on the brink of being great, but then the endings always fizzle. So you get episodes like Skin of Evil and The Battle that are 40~ minutes of incredibly effective setup, and then end suddenly when the heroes basically just get bored and decide to leave.