Alternate universe idea dilutes the drama of film?

[UFO]

The problem with the many worlds idea is that there's no free will. We're only seeing the universe that results when certain decisions are made. The person that exists in each universe is the result of a preveious decision. All decisions are equally valid. Each decision creates a new universe.

There is always free will, just an infinite number of realities for every free-willed decision ever made. You are right that all decisions are equally valid though.

I hate to break it to you but there is no free will in any event. At least no-one has ever come up with a rational methodology for it. Well, unless you are a compatiblist, but that's the poor man's free will. Fair enough it in its own way of course, but nothing special. Anyway, fear not, the many worlds theory doesn't rob you of anything, since you didn't have it to start with. There, doesn't that make you feel better? Sadly though, I imagine most people will go on believing they have it anyway.

As for whether decisions are valid, that has always been a matter of what criteria we are using. So it seems to me some decisions will still be more valid than others (in terms of their end result), its just that for every "right" decision you make, someone who looks a lot like you will make a "bad" one and visa versa.

But to address the original concern, as I mentioned elsewhere, it does indeed look, from a past draft of the script, that the many worlds business was a late addition (for the obvious reason) and some lines in the script may not have been altered to reflect the change.

Edit:

There has never been anything at stake in a Star Trek movie that I actually cared about.

Now we know why whales are extinct in the 23rd century!

 

[Pauln6]

It's sure not a very dramatic one.
"Why did you kill that man?
Because in the other universe I didn't. This is the universe where I did shoot him.
Oh, OK then."

Ah but you see only the audience knows that. The characters are living their lives to the best of their ability based on events and motivations of this version of themselves.

Having said that, the existence of a nihilistic sect that believes that their actions don't matter because they are just filling a niche in the multiverse i.e. at least one version of me has to be doing this so it might as well be me, is entirely possible.

I suppose that if modern day scientists can postulate many worlds theory then future beings WITH ACCESS TO TIME TRAVEL (even if only from 2266 onwards) would have a greater understanding of what the theory involves.

 

[Devon]

So why put them in areas where they're certainly not very capable, i.e. action summer movies based off of old material? I have no doubt in my mind that these writers can write a good story, but Transformers and Star Trek are not good examples.

For you.

 

[Jeyl]

So why put them in areas where they're certainly not very capable, i.e. action summer movies based off of old material? I have no doubt in my mind that these writers can write a good story, but Transformers and Star Trek are not good examples.

For you.

Devon, tell your repetitive ego that I'm well aware of what an opinion is. If "For you" is all that you got, you're not really saying anything.

Like I was saying. I don't think Bob and Alex are bad writers overall, I just think they're bad at working with material that they didn't help create. So, does that statement make me a god amongst men? No, just a viewer with an opinion. It may be mine, but by god, that's why we're here, aren't we?

 

[Dukhat]

So why put them in areas where they're certainly not very capable, i.e. action summer movies based off of old material? I have no doubt in my mind that these writers can write a good story, but Transformers and Star Trek are not good examples.

For you.

Devon, tell your repetitive ego that I'm well aware of what an opinion is. If "For you" is all that you got, you're not really saying anything.

Like I was saying. I don't think Bob and Alex are bad writers overall, I just think they're bad at working with material that they didn't help create. So, does that statement make me a god amongst men? No, just a viewer with an opinion. It may be mine, but by god, that's why we're here, aren't we?

No Jeyl, Devon is right. I loved the first Transformers movie and I loved Star Trek '09, which you did not. I also am a fan of the original Transformers and the original Star Trek, which you seem to also be. So my opinion, as Devon simplistically explained, is not the same as yours, but is neither more nor less valid than yours.

 

[Jeyl]

No Jeyl, Devon is right.

About what? That I have an opinion?...........Yes. He is right. Allow me to reenact this silly discussion.

Jeyl: I have an opinion.
Devon: That's your opinion.
Jeyl: Yes it is.
Dukhat: No Jeyl, he's right. It's your opinion.
Jeyl: Yes. It's my opinion.

Battle of the century.

So my opinion, as Devon simplistically explained, is not the same as yours, but is neither more nor less valid than yours.

But I wasn't arguing that your opinions were any less valid than mine, I'm just talking about the freaking movies. Why not just discuss why you have a different opinion instead of acting like jerks? I wouldn't mind reading why you like Star Trek 09 or Transformers, but what I don't like is simple brush offs that only serve to annoy the person you're replying to.

 

[Sabataage]

Think of the children! Won't someone please think of the children!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The problem with the many worlds idea is that there's no free will.

Yes, there is. Whether or not there are an infinite number of outcomes to any decision I make, is irrelevant. In this universe, I chose to make the decision I did. Other universes are not my concern and have no bearing on my will.

 

[kkozoriz1]

But you are also in the universe because someone in another universe made a different decision.

 

[JarodRussell]

Of course it dilutes the drama of the film, for me at least.

Kirk's father dies? Who cares, in the original universe he lived. Spock's mother dies? Who cares, in the original universe she lived and was a much better character. Vulcan is gone? I don't care. Not even Spock should really care, since it isn't his universe. He knows that HIS Vulcan is well and alive even in the 24th century. Yeah, he can feel sorry for the 6 billion alternate lives that were destroyed, but there are probably many, many, many other alternate universes where 6 billion Vulcans were killed by a disease, or by a meteorite impact, or whatever.

Not even the throwaway line about Romulus being destroyed in the original universe has any dramatic impact, since we will never see the original universe again, so it's totally pointless.

And about "open fate of the characters"... Bullshit. We all know that the next movie will again close with the entire crew on the bridge of the Enterprise. Nobody will die, nobody will leave the ship.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But you are also in the universe because someone in another universe made a different decision.

Again: Why should I care about anything that happens in an alternate universe? I will never see it. Nothing that happens in it can possibly affect me in any way. For all I know, it may not even exist. It certainly does not, and CANnot, affect any decision I make.

 

[JarodRussell]

But you are also in the universe because someone in another universe made a different decision.

Again: Why should I care about anything that happens in an alternate universe? I will never see it. Nothing that happens in it can possibly affect me in any way. For all I know, it may not even exist. It certainly does not, and CANnot, affect any decision I make.

And that when we don't even know if there are alternate universes in real life.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Not even the throwaway line about Romulus being destroyed in the original universe has any dramatic impact, since we will never see the original universe again, so it's totally pointless.

That struck me as a final kick at the old universe. We've got this brand new, shiney one to play with but we're going to blow up a major part of the original one just because. After all, you can't have a villian without destroying his entire planet first.

 

[BillJ]

Again: Why should I care about anything that happens in an alternate universe?

The exact reason why I don't care one iota about the Abramsverse.

 

[Shazam!]

Again: Why should I care about anything that happens in an alternate universe?

The exact reason why I don't care one iota about the Abramsverse.

Yep. I don't recall anyone giving a shit about Borg Universe Riker blowing up in Parallels so why should we care about these guys?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Actually I meant real life alternate universes (in the fiction that I read, I am fascinated with the concept). To suggest that there is no such thing as real life free-will just because alternate universes MIGHT exist is rather futile. They don't impact our lives or choices, so effectively they are irrelevant.

 

[BillJ]

^ Actually I meant real life alternate universes (in the fiction that I read, I am fascinated with the concept). To suggest that there is no such thing as real life free-will just because alternate universes MIGHT exist is rather futile. They don't impact our lives or choices, so effectively they are irrelevant.

I agree with alternate universes being interesting in real life and other science fiction. But the concept has never come across as dramatically satisfying in Star Trek. YMMV.

 

[tauntme]

Previous parallel universes in the Star Trek TV shows never interested me because they invested hundreds of episodes on just this one universe. Showing other universes was a "monster of the week" gimmick to make things interesting.

In this movie, since I already know it's actually a reboot, I'm more inclined to have fun watching it because it's essentially another director's vision of Star Trek. Fun times ahead.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Whether the drama works depends on whether the writers and actors make you care about the characters. They accomplished that, I cared, the drama works. That's true in any universe.

I'd like to know how Spock knows that the trip through time created a new universe. He's seen examples of the present being altered in the past, i.e. The Guardian of Forever. Since he's in the altered universe, how can he be sure that the prime universe is still there?

Well he doesn't have any way of knowing. The fact that the characters are so sure of something they couldn't possibly know is an indication that the writers are telling the audience their intent. Since they're in charge of the story, I'll take them at their word.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

That struck me as a final kick at the old universe. We've got this brand new, shiney one to play with but we're going to blow up a major part of the original one just because.

You realize of course, that the folks making these movies and TV shows are far too busy working and living their lives to give a fig about thumbing their noses at or taunting obsessive fan types?

People on the Internet sure do seem to imagine that the world revolves around finding ways to irritate or offend them.