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Also, what the heck happened with no supervision of Khan in exile?

There's no way Kirk could cover up all that.
How so? It ought to be trivial: he excludes it from his log and tells his crew never to mention it. He did it several times in other episodes as well.

He decided to give them the choice of being marooned on CetiAlpha 5 instead of going through the criminal justice system
Well, no. He freed them of all charges (which McCoy suggested was within his authority) and marooned them (which nobody suggested was within his authority, but there you have it). There was absolutely no choice about it; the option of penal brainwashing was now closed to Khan.

Kirk did give McGivers the choice of going through court martial or retiring with Khan, which is odd to the extreme because he had just freed McGivers from all charges as well! And then he closed the hearing. If the recordings went to Starfleet, then Starfleet knows Khan is absolved of all charges relating to the starship hijacking, and can be found at Ceti Alpha V if his previous crimes need judging. Since Kirk explicitly wanted to stop Khan from having to deal with Federation justice, though, there are just two options here:

a) Khan is historically innocent of all other wrongdoing save for the shipjacking, and the Federation justice system thus can never come and harass him at Ceti Alpha V.
b) Kirk never told Starfleet or the Federation.

If Reliant was equipped to detect traces of life, why couldn't it detect there was more than a trace on the planet?
Because the planet was presenting difficulties for the sensors; apparently Khan looked like lichen to them. Not an uncommon occurrence for starships at all, and usually not enough to stop the officers from using the transporter...

I wonder if they took any precautions against her family or some other crazy person freeing the prisoners.
The obvious one would be not to tell them. Kirk is always losing redshirts to completely fantastic threats; any cover story he invented for McGivers would be more plausible-sounding than the truth.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Maybe Starfleet knew Khan and company where there and Ceti Alpha VI blowing up was no act of nature.
 
Khan is historically innocent of all other wrongdoing save for the shipjacking, and the Federation justice system thus can never come and harass him at Ceti Alpha V.
Is there a statute of limitations on Khan's (supposed) criminal acts in the mid 1990's?

War crimes, crimes against Humanity, trial and conviction in absentia. Kirk only absolved Khan and his followers of offenses commit aboard the Enterprise.

Kirk did give McGivers the choice of going through court martial or retiring with Khan, which is odd to the extreme because he had just freed McGivers from all charges as well!
The dropping of charges would seem to have been aimed at Khan. From the dialog, Kirk wasn't referring to McGivers with that, he addressed her separately.

:devil:
 
There's only one fanwank theory that makes the vaguest of sense:

Starfleet lost Kirk's report.

If Starfleet quarantined the Ceti Alpha star system, then there's no way The Reliant could have just wandered along into the system. That's the exact reason for a quarantine is to prevent the things that happened in TWoK.

And even that theory requires Spock to have a brain fart. I would think Spock would be fascinated by what Khan could do with the resources he had. Spock's going to wonder what the hell is up when he can't find any probe reports.

The only thing I can think is that maybe Spock had scheduled a check-up after 15 years and only 14 had passed.

Edit: And I'm going to assume McGivers has no family.

This isn't a problem with "Space Seed." It's a problem with the retroactive continuity introduced in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
 
Is there a statute of limitations on Khan's (supposed) criminal acts in the mid 1990's?

No such crimes are mentioned anywhere in "Space Seed". Khan's only crime seemed to be losing the quest for world domination, and that means the winners were the real criminals: they engaged in wars of aggression against Khan, and wars of aggression are a big no-no according to United Nations, an organization supposedly still operational as of the 1990s.

Kirk only absolved Khan and his followers of offenses commit aboard the Enterprise.

Quite so. But as far as we know, that was the only set of offenses that Khan ever was charged with.

From the dialog, Kirk wasn't referring to McGivers with that, he addressed her separately.

Well,

"This hearing is now in session. Under the authority vested in me by Starfleet Command, I declare all charges and specifications in this matter have been dropped."

Sounds pretty categorical to me.

This isn't a problem with "Space Seed." It's a problem with the retroactive continuity introduced in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.

No, it's a problem with misguided fan ideas about what should have happened, but didn't.

Fans think that somebody should have visited Khan. This is probably natural, as Khan thinks the same. But neither "Space Seed" nor ST2:TWoK contains the idea that somebody would have "promised" or even "intended" to visit Khan. It's mere idle speculation by our heroes in "Space Seed", worded to suggest that our heroes in fact will never return.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Fans think that somebody should have visited Khan. This is probably natural, as Khan thinks the same. But neither "Space Seed" nor ST2:TWoK contains the idea that somebody would have "promised" or even "intended" to visit Khan. It's mere idle speculation by our heroes in "Space Seed", worded to suggest that our heroes in fact will never return.
At the end Spock says it would be interesting to revisit the planet in 100 years, implying there are no plans to visit there sooner.

Khan probably wouldn't have wanted people checking in on them. After years of suffering, though, he gets angry no one did.

He is a good villain because you can kind-of see his point, even though his point is wrong b/c he wouldn't have wanted checkins.
 
Khan probably wouldn't have wanted people checking in on them. After years of suffering, though, he gets angry no one did.

He is a good villain because you can kind-of see his point, even though his point is wrong b/c he wouldn't have wanted checkins.

Why not? He might've used them to escape as he finally did with the Reliant.
 
And to think, the Reliant escape might have been averted if they sent down a Survey Team instead of the Captain and First Officer...

...Or just ask to be beamed up as soon as Chekov realized they were on the Botany Bay instead of trying to run somewhere.
 
Khan's only crime seemed to be losing the quest for world domination, and that means the winners were the real criminals: they engaged in wars of aggression against Khan, and wars of aggression are a big no-no according to United Nations
If it was the citizens of the countries under Khan's rule, then no.

They chased him out by waving their torches and pitch forks.

:)
 
Khan's only crime seemed to be losing the quest for world domination, and that means the winners were the real criminals: they engaged in wars of aggression against Khan, and wars of aggression are a big no-no according to United Nations.

One does wonder if in the Trek universe the 'Eugenics Wars' played out not unlike the current I.S. situation, with Khan spearheading a group of his supermen in an (ultimately futile) attempt to spread his "Law" over the rest of the world. Starting from a small base, and growing stronger, gaining ground, until the rest of the world could simply not ignore them any longer and eventually sent forces to beat them down.
 
Let's assume Khan recognized then-Ensign Chekov aboard the Starship Enterprise at the time of "Space Seed". (Walter Koenig wasn't even selected for the TOS cast yet, but let's assume, for sake of argument, the Chekov was already aboard the Enterprise.)

If we establish that Khan met Chekov (or that Chekov's name and photo ID were found by Khan in the ship's computer) in 2266, then that's all we know. Khan recognized Chekov. There is no reason to believe that Capt. Kirk told his crew any details about what was happening to the Botany Bay crew after having restored security aboard the Enterprise. We do not even know for certain how Kirk and company retrieved the Botany Bay and how the Botany Bay's crew got transported to the surface of Alpha Ceti V.

Did the Enterprise go back and find the Botany Bay and tow the whole ship to Alpha Ceti? Maybe, maybe not. All Captain Terell noticed in the desert were "cargo containers", with the mention "if they crash-landed, that where's the rest of the ship?" So, apparently, the Botany Bay's cargo holds were separated from the ship, and the ship was left to drift in deep space.

It is not clear who went back to retrieve the cargo holds. Was it the Enterprise? Was it an Enterprise shuttlecraft fitted with a powerful tractor beam add-on? Or did Captain Kirk give coordinates to a civilian transport or an automated freighter (like the Woden) to intercept the drifting Botany Bay, have it extract the containers, and deliver them to Alpha Ceti while the Enterprise waits there? It could be any of the above. Depending on how easy it would be for a robot ship to carry out such a task (why not?) I'm inclined to think it could be a robot ship, possibly one sent out specifically from Starbase 12 with specially programed robotic equipment to accomplish this task.

So, the Enterprise waits, possibly in deep space near Ceti Alpha V, while (maybe) a robot ship from Starbase 12 is sent out to find the Botany Bay, extract her cargo holds, and deliver them to a rendezvous point with the Enterprise. As the Enterprise waits, Khan and company, under arrest, are given a debriefing by Kirk and Spock. The "supermen" are told that once their cargo containers arrive, they will be transported aboard (short-term life support would be a simple arrangement for a Starfleet cargo ship, one would assume) and sent to Ceti Alpha V.

In this scenario, no quarantine in necessary. Khan and his crew will be delivered and marooned on a wild planet, left to fight to survive "with only the contents of these cargo bays". No ship, no hope of ever threatening anyone. McGiver's resignation from the Star Service and her separation from the Enterprise crew would easily be fast-tracked at Kirk's request. And the Enterprise would not have to even approach the Alpha Ceti system proper. (Remember: Khan was trying to overload the Enterprise's engines during the brawl scene in the Engine Room, so maybe Scotty asked that the Enterprise stay-put in space until the engines could be repaired.)

So, in this scenario, Kirk's disciplinary hearing need not be shared with anyone but Starfleet Command (to establish the official fate of Lt. McGivers). The Enterprise crew would be too busy restoring the ship's order and engines and containing the 72 "supermen", probably in a contained pressurized holding area like the ship's shuttlecraft flight deck. (There would also be the matter of medical exams on everyone including the prisoners after being exposed to the intruder control gas.)

So, the robot ship (or whatever ship was dispatched, manned or unmanned) does its task, arrives at the now-repaired Enterprise, Khan and company are beamed into the containers, and sent to their destination, which could be billions or trillions of miles away. Khan and his people are deemed harmless, nobody need be quarantined, and the (supremely embarrassing) incident can be under-rug swept. (You don't think Captain Kirk, or Starfleet Command, wants it known how easily a bunch of ancient neo-Nazi terrorists were able to commandeer a well-armed Federation starship, do you?)

In this scenario, Chekov doesn't need to know where these thugs are being taken and discarded. Khan and company, in defeat, are about to become exile-refugees. It is extremely unlikely they will ever be seen or heard from again. (The galaxy is a big place; you can leave someone stranded on a planet and never hear from them again.)

All Kirk has to tell the crew is that "our guests" have been dispatched to a new isolated colony where they will never have access to spaceflight again. Once the cargo ship delivers Khan and company to their destination, they can be left there without any interaction with the vessel that carried them there. Even if the cargo ship did have a crew, they don't need to have any interaction with these refugees. They are deemed non-Federation colonists, outside of Starfleet's responsibility, either from the time they leave the Enterprise or from the time they are dumped on Ceti Alpha V's surface.

No monitoring. No contact at all. No responsibility. No court-martial for Captain Kirk for loosing control of his ship. No questions asked. No lies told. No trace of Botany Bay survivors, either.

It was as if nothing ever happened. "All that is left is our friendship" -- Tom Hagen, "The Godfather, Part II"



After having speculated on all of this, I would say there was nothing wrong with my post-"Space Seed" scenario because there was nothing wrong with "Space Seed" (at least, not in this regard. The real flaws were in TWOK. Whole planets do not spontaneously explode without reason, and destroy the climate of a neighboring planet. And it seems weird for Starfleet to send out a starship-of-the-line like Reliant to seek out a lifeless planet; a robot probe would do for that. And given Khan's past defeat, it would seem more likely he would steal the Reliant and abscond with his band of followers to someplace well outside of Federation space, to rebuild and fortify his position. How far would a skeleton crew of "supermen" hope to get with one ship against an entire fleet??? More like grab the Reliant and run like Hell!)
 
If it was the citizens of the countries under Khan's rule, then no. They chased him out by waving their torches and pitch forks.
Never stated. For all we know, those who deposed Khan slaughtered half of his former loyal subjects and enslaved the rest, then called it "liberation".

And to think, the Reliant escape might have been averted if they sent down a Survey Team instead of the Captain and First Officer...
Why would the nature of the landing party make a difference? Khan would capture them in any case, turn them into double agents, and infiltrate the ship with their help. Sure, starting out with the Captain and the... Well, some sort of an officer meant a shortcut for him, but starting out with a survey team (since when were those not led by the top officers?!) would only have introduced one additional step.

Starting from a small base, and growing stronger, gaining ground, until the rest of the world could simply not ignore them any longer and eventually sent forces to beat them down.
Quite possible - yet with the odd distinction that Khan never launched any wars. His expansion would have been of some other sort, perhaps involving assassinations, palace coups, top-level blackmail or rigged elections, perhaps merely introducing the superior candidate to every election...

Let's assume Khan recognized then-Ensign Chekov aboard the Starship Enterprise at the time of "Space Seed". (Walter Koenig wasn't even selected for the TOS cast yet, but let's assume, for sake of argument, the Chekov was already aboard the Enterprise.)
Well, the stardates bear this out: "Space Seed" comes after "Catspaw", Chekov's introductory episode (the one where he's considered the new kid, in-universe).

There is no reason to believe that Capt. Kirk told his crew any details about what was happening to the Botany Bay crew after having restored security aboard the Enterprise.
There might be all sorts of reasons - what we lack is proof. We extremely seldom hear Kirk tell his crew what is going on, but it's possible that Uhura gives a running narration over the PA system even though none of this is heard on the bridge where the camera resides. Going by what we actually see and hear, though, it might be that Kirk's crew is basically never aware of where the ship is, where she is sailing and what the mission is. Theirs is just to do and die.

We do not even know for certain how Kirk and company retrieved the Botany Bay and how the Botany Bay's crew got transported to the surface of Alpha Ceti V.
I doubt they retrieved the ship. Khan opted to discard the old tub - and was in no hurry to do so. Possibly, then, he took his time to move over some items he valued, such as his book collection, wrapped in a Botany Bay cargo belt.

What we see on the planet are cargo containers shaped like those seen in ST:TMP, and carrying Starfleet and Federation logos in places (but admittedly those are difficult to see - the ones stenciled on the exterior cannot be discerned at all, and the interior ones could be argued to be on separate, later added sheets of metal). Odds are (but proof is lacking) that Kirk just gave Khan a few of his Federation Standard Cargo Containers to live in.

As for the delivery method, another thing we cannot see on the screen but is evident from the sets themselves is that the containers are attached to a cargo rig identical to the ones seen in ST:TMP, up to and including a workbee cradle at one end. But the rig is broken so that two containers are out of alignment with the rest. Did this happen when the rig was gravidropped or paradropped to the surface? Or did Kirk beam the whole kit and caboodle down in an orderly fashion, and local conditions later damaged the settlement?

In the end, though, the artistic and dramatic intent was that no element of the Botany Bay herself reached the planet, or at least that none survived. Only select few interior items did.

We don't know if Khan had any colonization gear aboard. Khan's plan, if he even had any, is not revealed to us; perhaps the Botany Bay was loaded with nuclear weapons for bombardment of Mars so that Khan could conquer that planet's human settlements? In contrast, Kirk certainly would have had that sort of gear aboard - he had everything, as evidenced by many an episode!

All Kirk has to tell the crew is that "our guests" have been dispatched to a new isolated colony where they will never have access to spaceflight again.
True for any scenario. It's just that Kirk would need to tell his navigator to make a stop at CA V, or (if he wanted to be secretive) to take five while Spock piloted the ship to a secret destination that the navigator could no doubt guess based on what he knew - but Chekov wasn't his navigator that day, so this changes nothing.

Whole planets do not spontaneously explode without reason, and destroy the climate of a neighboring planet.
In Star Trek, they do. Why wouldn't they? Much stranger things happened in TOS, defining what Star Trek is all about.

And it seems weird for Starfleet to send out a starship-of-the-line like Reliant to seek out a lifeless planet; a robot probe would do for that.
Why not send a starship? She's assigned to the mission in any case, with apparent multiple tasks: scouting out for Genesis, delivering Genesis to the test site and, apparently, guarding the lab and the test site in great secrecy (remember, Kirk was in the mistaken belief that his was the starship closest to Regula!).

And given Khan's past defeat, it would seem more likely he would steal the Reliant and abscond with his band of followers to someplace well outside of Federation space, to rebuild and fortify his position.
You mean Khan shouldn't have been allowed any wrath? Then we'd just have a rerun of "Space Seed" and nothing more. But this movie is different: Kirk has grown old, and Khan has gone mad. Sometimes it may be that old and/or mad characters are uninteresting. IMHO, not here...

Timo Saloniemi
 
I don't think the entire Reliant crew knew about Project Genesis, just that they were searching for some dead world. Only the Senior Staff like Chekov and Terrell would've known what was really going. So Khan wouldn't have gotten needed information out of them and just known they were on a search for a dead world.

Also, I still don't get why they didn't ask to be beamed out as soon as Chekov realized the danger. What good would running off do them when they have a transporter?!

Then again, I don't see how they were able to run the Reliant with only a dozen people or so when it was repeatedly made clear you need a larger crew to run a ship like that.
 
I don't think the entire Reliant crew knew about Project Genesis, just that they were searching for some dead world. Only the Senior Staff like Chekov and Terrell would've known what was really going. So Khan wouldn't have gotten needed information out of them and just known they were on a search for a dead world.

I'd consider it a given that whatever team beamed down on the target world would be well aware of the specific needs of the Genesis project, and hence of the project itself. Otherwise, what would be the point of sending them? If it's about secrecy, then don't employ unnecessary middlemen! If it's about efficiency, then definitely send in your Genesis specialists.

Also, I still don't get why they didn't ask to be beamed out as soon as Chekov realized the danger. What good would running off do them when they have a transporter?!

We could always argue that the transporter was struggling with the beamings as is, due to the adverse weather, and would have been defeated by the "space-proof" container walls. It might even have been necessary to return to the exact beam-down point in order to secure a ride back. The movie doesn't present a particularly good case for this, alas, but it's a semi-consistent Treksplanation.

The alternative is that Chekov is attempting tactical thinking. Surely nobody can survive outside? That means Khan is inside! The spacesuits give the heroes a tactical advantage, then, allowing them to call for pickup at their leisure, once they have left the danger zone posthaste.

Then again, I don't see how they were able to run the Reliant with only a dozen people or so when it was repeatedly made clear you need a larger crew to run a ship like that.

Oh? I thought it was often mentioned that only a tiny handful of personnel was really needed, as long as one didn't sweat things like sustained ops or damage control ("By Any Other Name", "Mark of Gideon", ST3, the fact that Kirk was sailing with a crew of trainees and cadets).

Plus, these were suuuuupermen.

Timo Saloniemi
 
The transporter issue raised above is exactly one of the plausibility issues raised in reception of TWOK. In "Return to Tomorrow", with Sargon's help, the Enterprise's TOS-era transporters beamed four officers through over 100 miles of solid rock. In "The Menagerie", the Talosian Magistrate tricked the Enterprise into transporting Number One and Yeoman Colt into a subterranean complex, supposedly at least several meters underground. So a sandstorm and an cargo container without deflector shields should have been no problem for TMP-era transporters on a planet's surface.

I think TWOK was fun, too. And the story sort-of works. But it was obvious from the start that this movie was made by people who had little or no previous involvement in TREK.
 
The transporter was portrayed as quite finicky in TOS already. Sometimes alien assistance made it perform particularly well, but more often alien interference made the device unreliable or unusable. In fact, it was more often than not that our heroes' attempts at beaming out of danger were actually thwarted by the transporter failing them.

I don't think one case of alien assistance at impressive rock-penetrating would really tilt the balance yet. Nor do I think there was anything atypical about the heroes first taking a walk and only then using the transporter; such often inexplicable maneuvers are fairy routine in TOS, too.

How many TOS examples do we have of successful beaming out in the nick of time, if we rule out benign conditions (primitive Class M worlds on a pretty day, indoors or outdoors)?

Timo Saloniemi
 
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