Alphas renewed for season 2

[JD]

After the novelty of the serialized Sci-fi setting is over, all the episodes looks and feel the same. People love episodic crime drama because of their TV viewing habits. Statistic proves my point. I hope TV producers listen to the people choices who do the talking with their viewing habits (ratings). Sure it's ok to have some Sci-fi highly serialized TV shows, but not only that.

I really think you need to reverse that. With serialized shows you get the oporttunity for the characters and events to grow from week to week. As much as I love the CSIs, NCISs, and Psych, I'd say that those shows are way more repetitive than pretty much any of the serialized shows you've mentioned. In serialized shows, episodes are able to have even more of an impact than maybe a brief reference at the beginning before they characters get their next case. Serialized shows really are a win for both the viewers and the creators. For the viewers they let us get alot deeper into the characters and the stories, and then for the creators, it tends to draw viewers back for more episodes than a stand alone show does. I know I was alot more concerned about missing episodes of the more serialized shows like Lost or BSG when they were on the air than I am about missing a CSI or a NCIS.

 

[McDuff]

After the novelty of the serialized Sci-fi setting is over, all the episodes looks and feel the same. People love episodic crime drama because of their TV viewing habits. Statistic proves my point. I hope TV producers listen to the people choices who do the talking with their viewing habits (ratings). Sure it's ok to have some Sci-fi highly serialized TV shows, but not only that.

I really think you need to reverse that. With serialized shows you get the opportunity for the characters and events to grow from week to week.

I personally love crime drama, but its ok if some people here don't like them. This is a Sci-fi forum. Those shows got 10-18 millions viewers in ratings. But I only use the idea of crime drama (in fact sitcom too) because it shows that people viewing habits tend to prefer episodic than serialized. So I wont tell you in what way they are original. There's so many of them now than some of them are good but I don't watch them because my schedule is full. That's not the case with episodic Sci-fi. Let's say it, there's almost none of it on TV anymore (the new Doctor Who is the best example of this endangered format species).

When you get past the novelty of the sci-fi settings, highly serialized character drama sci-fi shows tend to be very repetitive. While for episodic Sci-fi shows each episode is highly original and is like a mini-movie on it's own.

For example, compare episode 3 and 4 of Walking dead (I don't even remember what episode that is or what happens there) with 2 Star Trek TNG episode like Inner Light and The Next Phase. Those 2 episodes are completely different from one another. The subject matter is entirely different.

Same thing with the new Doctor Who. One minute they visiting the end of Earth, the other episode they are facing a Dalek invasion on earth. Same thing with much of Stargate SG1. Or TV shows like Sliders.

So everytime you tune in to those shows you don't only wonder if X will abort or not its baby or if X will form an alliance with Y but you wonder to yourself what adventure you will live this week. What the mini-movie will be about. An episode where Aliens aged in reverse or where Gouauld try to infiltrate the SGC or where Jack and Teac are trapped in a vessel with no fuel and communication lost in space. In fact even within the episode anything can happens. Will Jack and Tealc be rescued by the SGC with the help of the Asguard, will they get capture by some aliens entity, are they in a simulation and none of it is real, etc.

So after a few episodes of highly serialized character drama Sci-fi, I get bored. And looking at the ratings of most of those shows. I'm not alone.

 

[Professor Zoom]

So after a few episodes of highly serialized character drama Sci-fi, I get bored. And looking at the ratings of most of those shows. I'm not alone.

The ratings of episodic sci-fi are just as bad.

 

[McDuff]

So after a few episodes of highly serialized character drama Sci-fi, I get bored. And looking at the ratings of most of those shows. I'm not alone.

The ratings of episodic sci-fi are just as bad.

I didn't realize they were some beside the new Doctor Who (and Warehouse 13 especially before this season). Please name some current episodic Sci-fi TV shows for me. I think TV producers need to step off the serialized Sci-fi bandwagon a bit and embrace the much more popular episodic format!

 

[Professor Zoom]

So after a few episodes of highly serialized character drama Sci-fi, I get bored. And looking at the ratings of most of those shows. I'm not alone.

The ratings of episodic sci-fi are just as bad.

I didn't realize they were some beside the new Doctor Who (and Warehouse 13 especially before this season). Please name some current episodic Sci-fi TV shows for me. I think TV producers need to step off the serialized Sci-fi bandwagon a bit and embrace the much more popular episodic format!

Alphas and Warehouse 13 come to mind. They are very much episodic. Especially Alphas. It's as episodic as a CSI...

But ACTUALLY the point is: regardless of episodic or not, Sci-fi does NOT get viewers in vast numbers. You could have the most episodic sci-fi show and you won't reach 8 million viewers.

 

[PsychoPere]

Yes, we get that. We understand what you want. In this thread, however, we don't care because this thread is about Alphas, not the endless parade of your prattle about how inferior serialized story telling is.

 

[McDuff]

The ratings of episodic sci-fi are just as bad.

I didn't realize they were some beside the new Doctor Who (and Warehouse 13 especially before this season). Please name some current episodic Sci-fi TV shows for me. I think TV producers need to step off the serialized Sci-fi bandwagon a bit and embrace the much more popular episodic format!

Alphas and Warehouse 13 come to mind. They are very much episodic. Especially Alphas. It's as episodic as a CSI...

Yes but even Alphas is turning more serialized with the whole Red Flag arc. It's a great arc, but that's what make them loose ratings. If people feel a tad bit lost after missing a couple of episode, it means it is too serialized!

But ACTUALLY the point is: regardless of episodic or not, Sci-fi does NOT get viewers in vast numbers. You could have the most episodic sci-fi show and you won't reach 8 million viewers.

I'm really glad you said that because that's one of the reason why I bringing the subject. When they announce Terra Nova I was telling to myself "shit another character drama survival Sci-fi. Another Walking Dead with unresponsive dino instead of unresponsive Zombies". I think people are tired of those. But I'm afraid some people will consider the failure of such shows as the failure of the Scifi genre on TV in general. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yes Lost was fantastic, but Lost was Lost, now it's over (and it didn't end that well as far as the mysteries goes, so many people were disappointed by it as they watched it for the mysteries).

Now TV producers need to step off the highly serialized Scifi bandwagon a bit and embrace the most popular scripted show format on TV. I'm sure it will completely revitalize Sci-fi TV series which is wandering off the good path since the success of Lost and its multiple "copy".

 

[Professor Zoom]

I didn't realize they were some beside the new Doctor Who (and Warehouse 13 especially before this season). Please name some current episodic Sci-fi TV shows for me. I think TV producers need to step off the serialized Sci-fi bandwagon a bit and embrace the much more popular episodic format!

Alphas and Warehouse 13 come to mind. They are very much episodic. Especially Alphas. It's as episodic as a CSI...

Yes but even Alphas is turning more serialized with the whole Red Flag arc. It's a great arc, but that's what make them loose ratings. If people feel a tad bit lost after missing a couple of episode, it means it is too serialized!

Um... do you know they have lost ratings? No. Probably not. Sense it's been renewed.

And it's NOT serialized. You CAN miss an episode. Red Flag is the general bad guy. They hardly developed them as a bad guy until the VERY self contained finale.

But ACTUALLY the point is: regardless of episodic or not, Sci-fi does NOT get viewers in vast numbers. You could have the most episodic sci-fi show and you won't reach 8 million viewers.

I'm really glad you said that because that's one of the reason why I bringing the subject. When they announce Terra Nova I was telling to myself "shit another character drama survival Sci-fi. Another Walking Dead with unresponsive dino instead of unresponsive Zombies".

It's interesting. You bring up Walking Dead--and while I find it boring as shit--it did REALLY REALLY well for AMC. Better than Mad Men. While it's not bringing in 8 million people--for a genre show, it's doing REALLY REALLY well.

The problem is: you assume genre is popular to a general audience and it's only the form that is the problem.

Science Fiction isn't as popular as you may think.

I think people are tired of those.

Why? What leads you to think that other than your personal opinion?

Also consider when BSG tried to become more episodic (second half of Season 2) they had a ratings fall off... just throwing that out there.

But I'm afraid some people will consider the failure of such shows as the failure of the Scifi genre on TV in general.

When was it ever a rip roaring success? 40 years ago?

With the exception of Lost--a serialized show--what was the last big success story on network? X-files? A semi-serialized proceedural?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Yes Lost was fantastic, but Lost was Lost, now it's over (and it didn't end that well as far as the mysteries goes, so many people were disappointed by it as they watched it for the mysteries).

It's funny you dismiss a HUGELY SUCCESSFUL SCI-FI SHOW, A SERIALIZED one at that. Because it disagrees with your point?

Now TV producers need to step off the highly serialized Scifi bandwagon a bit and embrace the most popular scripted show format on TV. I'm sure it will completely revitalize Sci-fi TV series which was wandering off the good path since the success of Lost.

You are deluding yourself. The reason sci-fi doesn't do well on network isn't because it's serialized, it's because it's sci-fi. A lot MORE people like doctor shows and cop shows and soap opera. That's the truth of it.

Personally, I think that's a good thing. Rather than making something for a general audience, make something for a niche, someone who will really LOVE it. Make something that speaks to ME, be daring--which you can't on network, you just can't.

 

[McDuff]

I will say it that way. To ensure the maximum success of any Sci-fi TV shows, if I was a TV producers I would combined any genre (like Sci-fi) with the format people watch the most which happens to be episodic (10-18 millions a week). The rest is just speculation and personal taste. Sci-fi movies are always collecting the highest grossing revenue so people don't mind Sci-fi at all. They are not allergic to alien planets or robots or the future. They are ready to pay for it a big price for it.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I will say it that way. To ensure the maximum success of any Sci-fi TV shows, if I was a TV producers I would combined any genre (like Sci-fi) with the format people watch the most which happens to be episodic (10-18 millions a week). The rest is just speculation and personal taste.

Has Alphas gotten 10 million a week? Or 5? What about Warehouse 13?

Sci-fi movies are always collecting the maximum movie entrance so people don't mind Sci-fi at all. They are not allergic to alien planets or robots or the future. They are ready to pay for it a big price for it.

Green Lantern might disagree with your alien planet idea... but, yes, people do seem to watch blockbusters. Could be the spectacle. Or the movie stars. But, it certainly doesn't translate into ratings for sci-fi shows, does it? Or Warehouse 13 and Alphas, episodics, would be KILLING IT in the ratings.

 

[McDuff]

I will say it that way. To ensure the maximum success of any Sci-fi TV shows, if I was a TV producers I would combined any genre (like Sci-fi) with the format people watch the most which happens to be episodic (10-18 millions a week). The rest is just speculation and personal taste.

Has Alphas gotten 10 million a week? Or 5? What about Warehouse 13?

It's only 2 shows and Warehouse got the best ratings of Syfy history while Alphas mix episode between serialized and episodic in only 11 episodes.

The big question is why would TV producers ignore the most popular TV format and apply it for Sci-fi shows too? Why not? I can't remember the last broacast Sci-fi shows that fully embrace its episodic nature (without people feeling lost when they missed a couple of episode). Ok lets not get over the board too, I don't mind highly serialized Sci-fi shows from time to time too. But now we are getting almost only that (Flashforward, The Event, Surface, Terra Nova, etc).

If people pay for Sci-fi in movies is that they don't mind Sci-fi. They are not allergic to robots, aliens planets, the future, etc. It's all about finding something they like. Adventure, fantasy, unexpected, mysteries, etc with the format they like.

 

[Guy Gardener]

^Most young people who watch TV, don't do it on TV. I know of quite a few people my age (20s) who don't have cable, and just watch all of their stuff online.

This again doesn't come in agreement with the statistic by Nielsen at least. People in America watch more hours of TV in average (per person) more than ever.

"TV" it's Youtube for old people.

 

[McDuff]

^Most young people who watch TV, don't do it on TV. I know of quite a few people my age (20s) who don't have cable, and just watch all of their stuff online.

This again doesn't come in agreement with the statistic by Nielsen at least. People in America watch more hours of TV in average (per person) more than ever.

"TV" it's Youtube for old people.

I would think that too. I don't know but statistic seemingly doesn't prove you right. Maybe people watch stuff on the internet but still watch more stuff on TV more than ever before. Maybe internet somehow helped the TV medium to be more popular like free publicity for TV. You watch a clip on youtube or some sites then you watch it on TV. Frankly I don't know but unless Nielsen is wrong people watch more TV. The reason why the ratings seems lower is because they are much more channel than before so the ratings are more spread across channel.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I will say it that way. To ensure the maximum success of any Sci-fi TV shows, if I was a TV producers I would combined any genre (like Sci-fi) with the format people watch the most which happens to be episodic (10-18 millions a week). The rest is just speculation and personal taste.

Has Alphas gotten 10 million a week? Or 5? What about Warehouse 13?

It's only 2 shows and Warehouse got the best ratings of Syfy history while Alphas mix episode between serialized and episodic in only 11 episodes.

So... no. They haven't gotten that high of ratings. Couldn't be the genre, could it?

The big question is why would TV producers ignore the most popular TV format and apply it for Sci-fi shows too?

They do. Alphas and Warehouse 13, as an example.

Why not? I can't remember the last broacast Sci-fi shows that fully embrace its episodic nature (without people feeling lost when they missed a couple of episode). Ok lets not get over the board too, I don't mind highly serialized Sci-fi shows from time to time too. But now we are getting almost only that (Flashforward, The Event, Surface, Terra Nova, etc).

Networks didn't embrace the episodic format for scifi because the BIGGEST ratings success lately for a scifi show was serialized. Lost. It was HUGE.

If people pay for Sci-fi in movies is that they don't mind Sci-fi. They are not allergic to robots, aliens planets, the future, etc. It's all about finding something they like. Adventure, fantasy, unexpected, etc with the format they like.

Yet, again, just because people want to see Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man, it clearly doesn't mean they want to see Nathan Fillion as a captain of a space ship.

I keep repeating myself, so, I'm going to stop after this: There are both episodic and serialized scifi on, and they are NOT huge ratings winners. What do they have in common? Genre.

And, again, it's CLEAR, just because people will see giant robots in a movie theater, they don't want to see scifi on the small screen. Again look at the ratings.

In other words, it's not the format, it's the genre. It's not as popular as you think it is. Just because you love it, doesn't mean there are 10 million other people who do.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I loved episodic tv shows when I was younger--Murder She Wrote, TNG, The X-Files, plenty of sitcoms like Roseanne, Golden Girls etc etc.

However I personally feel that the standalone format has run its course. By now pretty much legal, cop and hospital dramas have covered every perceivable permutation. Shows that are episodic just churn out the same old tried and true familiar chestnuts we've all seen over and over and over again. And shows that try to do both standalones and arcs usually give us warmed over one-offs that have the audience disappointed that they have to wait another week or two or months before the writers pick back up with the more compelling arc threads. I think total serialization is the way to go--it forces the writers to be more creative and mold storylines specific to the series. It is just more satisfying as I've gotten older to see a storyline unfold slowly with depth, twists and turns.

Now when I'm talking about serialization I'm not talking about the drawn out overly complicated Wikipedia-required serialization and behemoth mythologies that LOST ushered in(FlashForward, The Event, Heroes, Surface, The 4400 etc) --those were interesting experiments but they ultimately became too unwieldy and unsatisfying--but what I refer to as the traditional serialized drama a la primetime dramas of the 80s/90s where there were a few parallel season long linear story arcs that were easily manageable for writers and easy to follow for viewers--no flashbacks, out of order storytelling, dizzying pacing, dozens of mysteries/unanswered questions that take years to be resolved etc.

Serialized shows can be highly successful and garner large audiences--DALLAS, Hill Street Blues, Melrose Place etc.

 

[McDuff]

Networks didn't embrace the episodic format for scifi because the BIGGEST ratings success lately for a scifi show was serialized. Lost. It was HUGE.

I know there was Lost but beside Lost. And please name those episodic Sci-fi shows on broadcast that I miss lately. I'll prepare a list for you, you just need to place the title of the show beside it:

1-
2-
3-
4-
5-

I will now do my own list about serialized Sci-fi shows on broadcast networks:
1- Lost
2- The Event
3- Surface
4- Flashforward
5- Terra Nova
6- etc

Now here's the winner of the most popular scripted show format on TV : episodic. If the episodic format is the most popular format why then keep bringing the highly serialized format without any episodic ones too?

 

[PsychoPere]

Yes but even Alphas is turning more serialized with the whole Red Flag arc. It's a great arc, but that's what make them loose ratings. If people feel a tad bit lost after missing a couple of episode, it means it is too serialized!

This is the second time you've made a statement about "but even such-and-such is going serialized!" I don't understand what you're attempting to say with that. It almost seems like you're trying to imply that Alphas presented itself as one thing, then turned out to be another - which it most certainly did not.

You also used that inexplicable "even" nonsense in relation to Warehouse 13. I watched a few episodes of that show when it first premiered, and its episodic story telling was exactly what bored me to tears and resulted in me dropping the show pretty quickly. If they are going serialized, good for them; that's a choice I applaud.

If the episodic format is the most popular format why then keep bringing the highly serialized format without any episodic ones too?

Since you seem to be having troubles grasping this, I'll type it yet again:

Because that's not what the people writing and producing science fiction these days want to do. They want to tell ongoing stories. They want to present characters who grow over time, which is rare in episodic story telling. They don't want to do "one and done" episodes, because they want to spend time examining the consequences of actions of one episode in subsequent ones.

 

[JD]

After the novelty of the serialized Sci-fi setting is over, all the episodes looks and feel the same. People love episodic crime drama because of their TV viewing habits. Statistic proves my point. I hope TV producers listen to the people choices who do the talking with their viewing habits (ratings). Sure it's ok to have some Sci-fi highly serialized TV shows, but not only that.

I really think you need to reverse that. With serialized shows you get the opportunity for the characters and events to grow from week to week.

I personally love crime drama, but its ok if some people here don't like them. This is a Sci-fi forum. Those shows got 10-18 millions viewers in ratings. But I only use the idea of crime drama (in fact sitcom too) because it shows that people viewing habits tend to prefer episodic than serialized. So I wont tell you in what way they are original. There's so many of them now than some of them are good but I don't watch them because my schedule is full. That's not the case with episodic Sci-fi. Let's say it, there's almost none of it on TV anymore (the new Doctor Who is the best example of this endangered format species).

When you get past the novelty of the sci-fi settings, highly serialized character drama sci-fi shows tend to be very repetitive. While for episodic Sci-fi shows each episode is highly original and is like a mini-movie on it's own.

For example, compare episode 3 and 4 of Walking dead (I don't even remember what episode that is or what happens there) with 2 Star Trek TNG episode like Inner Light and The Next Phase. Those 2 episodes are completely different from one another. The subject matter is entirely different.

Same thing with the new Doctor Who. One minute they visiting the end of Earth, the other episode they are facing a Dalek invasion on earth. Same thing with much of Stargate SG1. Or TV shows like Sliders.

So everytime you tune in to those shows you don't only wonder if X will abort or not its baby or if X will form an alliance with Y but you wonder to yourself what adventure you will live this week. What the mini-movie will be about. An episode where Aliens aged in reverse or where Gouauld try to infiltrate the SGC or where Jack and Teac are trapped in a vessel with no fuel and communication lost in space. In fact even within the episode anything can happens. Will Jack and Tealc be rescued by the SGC with the help of the Asguard, will they get capture by some aliens entity, are they in a simulation and none of it is real, etc.

So after a few episodes of highly serialized character drama Sci-fi, I get bored. And looking at the ratings of most of those shows. I'm not alone.

Once again I'm going to have to disagree with you. While I might be curious what the case will be for his week's NCIS or CSI: New York, I'm alot more interested in where the arc for True Blood or Walking Dead will go. I find that I tend to get alot more emotially invested in the events of True Blood or Walking Dead. And I am defintely alot more concerned with missing an episode of WD or Vampire Diaries than I am an episode of CSI. And even that isn't really a concern anymore.
You keep talking about people being so concerned with having to see every episode, but I really don't see how that can possibly be a concern with so many different ways to catch up, either through written recaps which are on most shows' websites, or streaming episodes which are available on Hulu and/or the networks' websites.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Networks didn't embrace the episodic format for scifi because the BIGGEST ratings success lately for a scifi show was serialized. Lost. It was HUGE.

I know there was Lost but beside Lost. And please name those episodic Sci-fi shows on broadcast that I miss lately.

AHH... goal post moved.

I'll prepare a list for you, you just need to place the title of the show beside it:

1-
2-
3-
4-
5-

No. Because I'm NOT arguing that serialized sci-fi shows last longer than episodic. I'm arguing sci-fi isn't popular enough to garner numbers popular enough for networks. I COULD mention such craptaculor shows like The Cape and Knight Rider... both episodic shows that... for good reason, went away.

I will now do my own list about serialized Sci-fi shows on broadcast networks:
1- Lost
2- The Event
3- Surface
4- Flashforward
5- Terra Nova
6- etc

As I recall, the Event and Flashforward were HORRIBLE shows. So, OF COURSE, they disappeared. I didn't hear that many good things about Surface, but it had it's fans, but not enough to be on TV. Lost, serialized, fantastic ratings. Terra Nova, probably more episodic than you think it will be--ok ratings.

So, what's your point?

OH--why didn't you mention FRINGE? That's sci-fi, that's on, that's serialized...

Now here's the winner of the most popular scripted show format on TV : episodic. If the episodic format is the most popular format why then keep bringing the highly serialized format without any episodic ones too?

You know what, I AM going to come up with a list...

1. Chicago Code
2. The Defenders
3. Law and Order: Los Angeles
4. Detroit 187
5. Lie to Me.

5 shows of a VERY popular genre-- Cop and Lawyer shows. ALL CANCELLED. ALL EPISODIC.

Just being episodic doesn't mean ANYTHING.

And just for fun, I'm going to do another list:

Here is a list of the top 25 shows of last week. The all valued 18-49 demographic...

1 Two and a Half Men comedy
2 NBC Sunday Night Football sport
3 2 Broke Girls comedy
4 Modern Family SP-9/21(S) comedy
5 SUNDAY NIGHT NFL PRE-KICK sport
6 Modern Family comedy
7 OT, THE sport?
8 How I Met Your Mother comedy
9 Big Bang Theory, THE comedy
10 Big Bang Theory, THE comedy
11 New Girl comedy
12 How I Met Your Mother comedy
13 FOOTBALL NT AMERICA sport
14 X-FACTOR-WED reality
15 NCIS P CBS drama
16 X-FACTOR-THU reality
17 Family Guy P comedy
18 Criminal Minds drama
19 GREY'S ANATOMY P drama--soap
20 Dancing with the Stars reality
21 Glee P comedy
22 OFFICE comedy
23 Simpsons comedy
24 NCIS: LOS ANGELES drama
25 Hawaii Five-0 drama

Now... looking at the list... if I was a producer... looking at the MOST popular format... COMEDY. If I was basing my decisions on what was POPULAR, I would do a Sci-Fi COMEDY.

You don't get to drama until 15. You get Grey's Anatomy--a SERIALIZED DRAMA at 19. Only two episodics ahead of it...

My point is: you tell the story you want to tell how you want to tell it. If it's an episodic, great. If it's a serialized show, great. An audience shows up for both. It's not the FORM, it's what's IN the show that counts.

And, finally, sci-fi will NEVER garner 10 million again... certainly not just by being episodic. I think Lost was able to do it because it wasn't labeled as sci-fi for a LONG time. The producers introduced those ideas subtly and slowly, and by that point people were hooked. That said, sci-fi is a genre that would struggle under the expectation of network ratings.

But, I ask you: what was last great episodic sci fi shows on network that got BIG ratings?

 

[Hyperspace05]

GEEZ, for f*cks sake, does every thread in this forum need to turn into "McDuff crusade against serialization and others arguing with him"?

McDuff, you've said your piece here (as has everyone else) - Start your own dedicated thread on the topic so everyone else can stay the hell away.

Back ON TOPIC:

I just saw the finale of Alphas - Excellent IMO - Not as good as last episode, but that last 5 mins really elevated it. They've got balls. I'm really curious to see how the show evolves now.