Alien5: It's a Bug Hunt (pre-release thread)

[Locutus of Bored]

Prometheus though makes no sense, the ship is far more advanced than the Nostromo was...

I've got a lot of problems with Prometheus despite loving the atmosphere and production design (and still looking forward to the sequel), but this is a weak complaint. It's not reasonable to expect movies and shows set in the same universe but made 33 years later to adhere to the technical and budgetary limitations of their predecessor's time. Blinky light panels and green text CRT screens may have been a satisfactory representation of computers (for one example) in 1979, but it's not today, and it's silly to expect them to dumb down the depiction of the technology in order to satisfy a minor continuity issue which has no bearing on the story.

Slavish dedication to maintaining continuity with depictions of previously used technology gave us the overuse of flamethrowers. I already thought it was kind of dumb that just because the Nostromo crew jury-rigged a flamethrower out of spare parts in Alien the subsequent movies thought they had to have a flamethrower as a standard piece of professional military and mercenary equipment as well, when in reality flamethrowers are extremely unwieldy and dangerous and rarely used except for special circumstances like clearing fields, bunker fighting, and burning down villages if you want to turn the local populace against you. In other words, not something you'd take to a friendly colony world or a science lab ship.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Slavish dedication to maintaining continuity with depictions of previously used technology gave us the overuse of flamethrowers. I already thought it was kind of dumb that just because the Nostromo crew jury-rigged a flamethrower out of spare parts in Alien the subsequent movies thought they had to have a flamethrower as a standard piece of professional military and mercenary equipment as well, when in reality flamethrowers are extremely unwieldy and dangerous and rarely used except for special circumstances like clearing fields, bunker fighting, and burning down villages if you want to turn the local populace against you. In other words, not something you'd take to a friendly colony world or a science lab ship.

Regarding the flamethrowers in Alien, in dialog in the theatrical cut, there's mention of breaking out weapons for the walk across the moon to the source of the signal (IIRC it's Dallas who orders it), but we never got to see their weapons and they rigged up those silly flamethrowers later. The sidearms getting Chuck-Cunninghammed is counted somewhere among the demerits that makes me score the film as only ***½ out of ****.

The only shot of the weapons that I know of is that in an alternate edit of Kane getting face-hugged he's briefly seen holding his sidearm as he's examining the egg before the alien bursts out.

 

[Timby]

there's no reason for the Engineer to attack humans. And even if one of the Engineers were taken for Jesus as is supposed to be the backstory, they continued to come to earth after Jesus' death.

Congratulations, you missed one of the central points of the film, that these people were in completely over their heads, that they were messing with shit that they had no idea about and they just blindly assumed they would be greeted with open arms by the Engineers.

Think of how you approached love, relationships, when you were young. You went all-in with this naive, idealistic sensibility, and then you get in over your head, you're just a kid and you've gone all-in with a crazy person, and you wonder to yourself, "What the HELL have I done?" You try to do your best to carry on, soldier forward, and find some meaning in everything ... and, nope. Nothing.

Then you meet "God," your creator, the being responsible for your existence, and you ask God why everything is so incredibly fucked up. And God ... gives you no answers, shows nothing but pure hatred and then sets out to express that hate upon your entire race and it's incumbent upon you to prevent that disaster.

I mean, that's one of the central themes of the film: That some things are better left alone.

And that's the thing about Ridley Scott when he goes to the sci-fi well: His films aren't necessarily about telling a story. Blade Runner is boring as hell until you look at the design, the art direction, and the themes, and you realize that it isn't a boring cop movie with pretty pictures, because there's so much going on beneath the surface -- the subtext is ridiculously rich. Even in Alien, too, because that film's about a gigantic penis monster raping the shit out of a crew of ineffective fools and only the woman can stop it.

There's just too many inconsistancies with the Alien universe

I don't think it's humanly possible for me to care less about whether or not a movie is consistent with others in the "universe," because then you have to start trying to reconcile all the shit from the AVP movies and then I'm going to drop-kick a puppy.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Yeah Ryder was definitely the one (and only) highlight of that movie. Just a shame the movie wasted such a cool and interesting character.

I thought Ron Pearlman was.

Or when Sigourney made that behind-the-back, half-court, basketball shot. Without special effects. On the FIRST TAKE. Look it up.

Plus, you can speculate whether the Betty and her crew may have inspired Whedon's later Firefly.

I really disliked Resurrection initially. I've come to like it but it's made by a very arty, very French director. It doesn't really play like a typical American movie and I think it works better if watched with an open mind. Not that it doesn't have flaws but I think beyond them lies some stuff worth seeing.

 

[Galileo7]

Awesome.

My favorite films of this franchise have always been Alien(1979), Aliens(1986) and now Neill Blomkamp's Alien5 will complete the trilogy for me.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Playing Alien Resurrection from the Quadrilogy set. I'm finding the front half to be better, it falls apart as it goes on but still the underwater sequence isn't bad (even if everyone has incredible lung capacity...).

 

[Timby]

Plus, you can speculate whether the Betty and her crew may have inspired Whedon's later Firefly.

I really disliked Resurrection initially. I've come to like it but it's made by a very arty, very French director. It doesn't really play like a typical American movie and I think it works better if watched with an open mind. Not that it doesn't have flaws but I think beyond them lies some stuff worth seeing.

Oh, the crew of the Betty is absolutely a proto-Firefly. The parallels are almost blinding.

There are good qualities to Resurrection -- the effects work, by and large, is very good to excellent, the casting is spot-on and the production design is phenomenal. But it's let down by a really weak, ham-fisted script and I don't think Jeunet really had the right sensibility to tackle it (nor was Whedon the right guy to write it). His style in Resurrection is this bizarre mix of Fincher and Cameron and it just feels very tonally odd as a result.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

But it's let down by a really weak, ham-fisted script and I don't think Jeunet really had the right sensibility to tackle it (nor was Whedon the right guy to write it). His style in Resurrection is this bizarre mix of Fincher and Cameron and it just feels very tonally odd as a result.

I mentioned Jeunet being a very visual, arty director and yeah probably is not a good mix with Whedon who has a more direct blue collar storytelling approach. Like I don't picture Jeunet on Avengers and I can't see Whedon doing City of Lost Children or Amelie.

 

[Beagleman]

...and then I'm going to drop-kick a puppy.

That made me laugh a lot more than it should.

 

[davejames]

Congratulations, you missed one of the central points of the film, that these people were in completely over their heads, that they were messing with shit that they had no idea about and they just blindly assumed they would be greeted with open arms by the Engineers.

All that's fine and good, but it still would have been nice if this crew acted in an even remotely intelligent and scientific way while doing their investigation. The movie builds them up as this elite unit of scientific minds recruited to explore a new planet and their first alien species... and then they behave in the most idiotic, dunderheaded way imaginable at every turn.

Hell, even the Nostromo crew didn't come across as clueless as these guys did-- and they willingly brought an alien onto their ship!

 

[kitik]

BRING BACK NEWT AND HICKS!

Bringing back Hicks, however they choose to explain it, is the best retcon idea for this franchise in some time.

I'm sorry, but you folks are missing the obvious.

Hudson is the one people care about! Bringing back Hudson would be the best idea ever. I don't care how. Clones. Maybe make an entire army of Hudson-shaped androids.

 

[Timby]

All that's fine and good, but it still would have been nice if this crew acted in an even remotely intelligent and scientific way while doing their investigation. The movie builds them up as this elite unit of scientific minds recruited to explore a new planet and their first alien species... and then they behave in the most idiotic, dunderheaded way imaginable at every turn.

You're still kind of missing the point -- they're told they're the leaders in their field by Weyland, but he's just buttering them up. His whole gameplan was, "Fuck it, these schmucks will get me to the planet, then David will take care of the rest." The point is that the crew of the Prometheus are idiotic, dunderheaded fools.

 

[shapeshifter]

I thought that the technical differences and the different behavior of the crews of the the Nostromo / Prometheus was because the former was built and crewed by a legitimate mining corporation but the latter was funded, built and crewed by a crackpot billionaire with an agenda requiring the keeping of secrets. He hired people who were (foolishly) willing and able to achieve his goals without asking questions. IIRC

Anyway, here's hoping Alien 5 makes the grade.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder if the postapocalyptic Paris scene in the special edition of Alien4 was meant to have been caused by the Auriga crashing into Earth. That had to do a hell of a lot of damage somewhere, amirite?

 

[davejames]

You're still kind of missing the point -- they're told they're the leaders in their field by Weyland, but he's just buttering them up. His whole gameplan was, "Fuck it, these schmucks will get me to the planet, then David will take care of the rest." The point is that the crew of the Prometheus are idiotic, dunderheaded fools.

I think you're reading more into the movie than is there. Weyland may have not cared what happened to the Prometheus crew, and was relying more on his android for the answers he wanted, but there's nothing in the movie saying these were not supposed to still be the experts in their field they were made out to be.

Hell, they didn't even have to be the best scientific minds in order to practice at least basic common sense and critical thinking skills when exploring an alien ship.

 

[Timby]

but there's nothing in the movie saying these were not supposed to still be the experts in their field they were made out to be.

Their activities once they arrive on the planet strongly suggest otherwise. The only sensible, pragmatic person on the entire ship is Janek. Shaw is a wide-eyed doe in the woods, Fifeld is a moronic hothead, Millburn is an idiot, and so on. Weyland hired enough people to A) keep up the pretense of this being a "research" mission and B) get him from Point A to Point B, where he then hopes to find eternal life. The entire Prometheus mission is a sham.

Hell, they didn't even have to be the best scientific minds in order to practice at least basic common sense and critical thinking skills when exploring an alien ship.

It's almost like they were in over their heads and the movie is telling us something about hubris...

 

[Relayer1]

BRING BACK NEWT AND HICKS!

Bringing back Hicks, however they choose to explain it, is the best retcon idea for this franchise in some time.

I'm sorry, but you folks are missing the obvious.

Hudson is the one people care about! Bringing back Hudson would be the best idea ever. I don't care how. Clones. Maybe make an entire army of Hudson-shaped androids.

Husdson ?

That'd be a real pretty mess right out wouldn't it ! That'd just be it, all fine and dandy. Game over man, GAME OVER....

 

[davejames]

It's almost like they were in over their heads and the movie is telling us something about hubris...

Well clearly that was one of the points Scott was trying to make, but it shouldn't be necessary to turn every character into a moron in order to make it (and I really doubt he wanted his central heroine to look like an idiot as well).

Plus the cheesy, hamhanded writing applies to a whole lot more than just the characters in this movie, which tells me this was much more about bad screenwriting and directing than anything else.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's almost like they were in over their heads and the movie is telling us something about hubris...

Well clearly that was one of the points Scott was trying to make, but it shouldn't be necessary to turn every character into a moron in order to make it (and I really doubt he wanted his central heroine to look like an idiot as well).

The problem is that it just happened so quickly. They're barely on the planet for more than 5 minutes before half the characters are like, "OMG this planet is scary, I'm going back to the ship!"

Even before all the crazy death and mayhem, Dr. Holloway's reaction is so annoying. He's supposed to be this brilliant mind on a mission to find this aliens, and as soon as they find the corpse of ONE OF THEM, he basically gives up on the whole thing and comes to the conclusion that his God is dead. His partner Elizabeth Shaw is actually trying to work, and he decides to drown his sorrows in a bottle of booze. It's fucking pathetic.

I just wanted to smack him. It's like, dude, you found one dead body inside one building that's thousands of year old. MAYBE YOU SHOULD KEEP LOOKING.

 

[DWF]

All that's fine and good, but it still would have been nice if this crew acted in an even remotely intelligent and scientific way while doing their investigation. The movie builds them up as this elite unit of scientific minds recruited to explore a new planet and their first alien species... and then they behave in the most idiotic, dunderheaded way imaginable at every turn.

You're still kind of missing the point -- they're told they're the leaders in their field by Weyland, but he's just buttering them up. His whole gameplan was, "Fuck it, these schmucks will get me to the planet, then David will take care of the rest." The point is that the crew of the Prometheus are idiotic, dunderheaded fools.

I you're missing the point of the movie, yes we know about Weyland's search for immortality but in the end it's story of the Engineer's that's the real story. Shaw went there on a different mission and really the movie fails to explain the actions of the Engineers. All the way down do why the hologram of the Engineers were running though the ship. I mean what were they running from what killed them?