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News Alec Baldwin Accidentally Shoots & Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director with Prop Gun

Sci said:
And the fact that he won't accept any responsibility for having created those conditions, and that he says he feels no guilt at all, to me is evidence of a fundamental amorality at play here. This is a guy whose choices created a line of dominoes that resulted in someone dying, and he's most concerned with saving his own ass instead of taking responsibility for his choices.
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Reality check: It's human nature to prefer to save your own ass instead of to face the music and to accept heavy consequences. Also, it would be foolish, and we can expect it to be contrary to legal advice for him to admit culpability at this juncture. None of that is indicative of any amorality on Baldwin's part.

The organizational irresponsibility is another matter in which amorality could conceivably play a role, but I don't think we yet understand how responsibility was delegated and assumed in this particular organization any more deeply than just going by job titles and generalities, which is not enough to base any conclusions on regarding Baldwin's character.
 
How many actors do you see listed as producers on a production? They are given a producer title as an ego stroke. Eliza Dushku was a producer on Dollhouse, Mark Harmon on NCIS, Scott Bakula was a producer on NCIS: New Orleans from 2016-2019 and executive producer from 2019-2021, Sonequa Martin-Green is a producer for the current season of Star Trek: Discovery, and Jim Parsons is an executive producer on Young Sheldon along with Jon Favreau (for a single episode in 2017). How much do you think they had a hand in the actual budgetary and hiring decisions in the production? Baldwin himself noted that most of his producer functions were creative.
 
Non Sync said:
How many actors do you see listed as producers on a production? They are given a producer title as an ego stroke. Eliza Dushku was a producer on Dollhouse, Mark Harmon on NCIS, Scott Bakula was a producer on NCIS: New Orleans from 2016-2019 and executive producer from 2019-2021, Sonequa Martin-Green is a producer for the current season of Star Trek: Discovery, and Jim Parsons is an executive producer on Young Sheldon along with Jon Favreau (for a single episode in 2017). How much do you think they had a hand in the actual budgetary and hiring decisions in the production?
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As I understand it, even if your producer credit does not reflect your actual job performance, being a producer still means you assume certain legal responsibilities for the production -- you are one of the people in charge. Choosing not to exercise those responsibilities and allowing other producers to make decisions for you does not matter in terms of legal and moral culpability. You still share responsibility for those choices.

Baldwin himself noted that most of his producer functions were creative.
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Alec Baldwin has a pretty obvious conflict of interest right now in terms of providing accurate information about this production.
 
Sci said:
As I understand it, even if your producer credit does not reflect your actual job performance, being a producer still means you assume certain legal responsibilities for the production -- you are one of the people in charge. Choosing not to exercise those responsibilities and allowing other producers to make decisions for you does not matter in terms of legal and moral culpability. You still share responsibility for those choices.
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I doubt a job title alone imparts legal responsibilities. His employment agreement would delineate his actual duties and responsibilities.
 
the G-man said:
He came off terribly in that interview. Never should have done it. He either has a terrible legal team or he didn't take their advice and did it anyway.
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My assumption was that some sort of PR Company advised him to do it, but it looks terrible. He’d have been much better advised to say nothing & just be seen to be totally co-operative with the official investigations.
 
Gun expert shows that it is impossible for the gun to go off with the hammer back unless your finger is on the trigger or the hammer mechanism is damaged. So either Alex Baldwin is lying and he did have his finger on the trigger or the hammer mechanism was severely damaged.

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Romulan_spy said:
Gun expert shows that it is impossible for the gun to go off with the hammer back unless your finger is on the trigger or the hammer mechanism is damaged. So either Alex Baldwin is lying and he did have his finger on the trigger or the hammer mechanism was severely damaged.
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I don't like the use of the word lying there, when there are only two possibilities, since it tends to imply the person is stating false information deliberately. He might not even realize that his finger had put pressure on the trigger, and that really needs to be another possibility.
 
Christmas Corps said:
I don't like the use of the word lying there, when there are only two possibilities, since it tends to imply the person is stating false information deliberately. He might not even realize that his finger had put pressure on the trigger, and that really needs to be another possibility.
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Fair enough. But at the very least, what Alex said in the interview was incomplete, misleading, or erroneous.
 
Romulan_spy said:
Gun expert shows that it is impossible for the gun to go off with the hammer back unless your finger is on the trigger or the hammer mechanism is damaged. So either Alex Baldwin is lying and he did have his finger on the trigger or the hammer mechanism was severely damaged.

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I prefer the John Schneider version because, c'mon, it's Bo Duke.
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Mr. Adventure said:
I prefer the John Schneider version because, c'mon, it's Bo Duke.
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Really good. John Schneider is clearly knowledgeable about guns.

I think Alex Baldwin did have his finger on the trigger and he simply does not want to admit it because it makes him look guilty.
 
"Experts prove Alec Baldwin is lying! It's impossible for a gun to go off without pressure on the trigger."
... "Unless..."

I wonder if this was anyone else other than Alec Bladwin if so many Right Wingers would be so, er, "triggered" by these events and statements.

It's not easy to come out and just say Baldwin "lied" in the interview when there's the possibility the gun was malfunctioning or damaged in a way to make the "impossible" "possible."

Alec Baldwin made fun of Trump on a show that's been making fun of the sitting president since it started airing 45 years ago. Get over it.

Accidents happen, this was an accident with many levels of fault to spread around between Baldwin and the rest of the crew involved with firearm safety on the set.

If this was any other actor no one would be putting this passion into it. But Baldwin made fun of Our Lord and Savior. So, let's crucify him.
 
Romulan_spy said:
Gun expert shows that it is impossible for the gun to go off with the hammer back unless your finger is on the trigger or the hammer mechanism is damaged. So either Alex Baldwin is lying and he did have his finger on the trigger or the hammer mechanism was severely damaged.

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Christmas Corps said:
I don't like the use of the word lying there, when there are only two possibilities, since it tends to imply the person is stating false information deliberately. He might not even realize that his finger had put pressure on the trigger, and that really needs to be another possibility.
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Agree that Baldwin could be lying OR could not realize he had a finger on the trigger and/or putting pressure on it. If one is not familiar with a particular firearm, it's very possible to discharge it accidentally. That's why the first rule of firearm safety is "don't point any gun at anyone you don't intend to shoot and kill" and the second is "don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to shoot."

Trekker4747 said:
I wonder if this was anyone else other than Alec Bladwin if so many Right Wingers would be so, er, "triggered" by these events and statements.
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People of one political persuasion accusing people of the other political persuasion of hypocrisy or just desserts when something bad happens to them? Like that's never happened before. Hell, there are people out there who are practically giddy when someone who didn't get vaccinated dies of COVID. It's unfortunate but hardly uncommon.
 
the G-man said:
People of one political persuasion accusing people of the other political persuasion of hypocrisy or just desserts when something bad happens to them? Like that's never happened before. Hell, there are people out there who are practically giddy when someone who didn't get vaccinated dies of COVID. It's unfortunate but hardly uncommon.
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Sure, deflect.

My point stands. Accidents happen, and apparently this accident is one that could have happened if everyone involved with that firearm being there, and being used, wasn't doing their jobs correctly. (And this includes Alec Baldwin who, at the very least, could have checked the gun chambers when it was handed to him even described as being "cold.")

But all of these on-line/YT "experts" are going on there saying he "lied" and that this can never happen and then they put the qualifier in there that it "could" happen if the gun was malfunctioning or damaged in some way. So... it's not impossible.

None of of us were there, none of us know what happened, none of us know the state of the gun, and those doing the investigation aren't telling us everything they have found. (For all we know the mechanisms in the gun that prevent it from firing when the trigger isn't pulled but the hammer all the way back was malfunctioning,.)

The bottom of this is that this was an accident. An accident that shouldn't have happened, an accident that could have been prevented, an accident that hasn't happened for decades because the safety protocols on sets to prevent them weren't being stringently followed (and out right ignored) by those there to ensure that they were.

Blame to go around, in the end, it was an accident and no one is really, criminally, liable.

If a parent in a 100* day in the Summer can kill their kid by locking them in the car and "get away with it" by it being called an accident, I think this can be considered an accident too that everyone can legally "get away with" and only living with the guilt on their conscious for the loss of life.

Civil responsibility is another matter and plenty of places for that to go between Baldwin (as the firer of the gun and identified as a producer of the production) the other producers, director, and those responsible for the guns on the set.

Again, if this wasn't Alec Baldwin no one would care *this much* about seeing someone being punished. Hell, would we even be talking about this? The only other time this happened in recent history as a big deal because happened to Brandon Lee.
 
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Trekker4747 said:
Sure, deflect.

My point stands. Accidents happen...But all of these on-line/YT "experts" are going on there saying he "lied" and that this can never happen and then they put the qualifier in there that it "could" happen if the gun was malfunctioning or damaged in some way. So... it's not impossible....Again, if this wasn't Alec Baldwin no one would care *this much* about seeing someone being punished. Hell, would we even be talking about this? The only other time this happened in recent history as a big deal because happened to Brandon Lee.
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In the very post of mine you quoted I specifically said I found it perfectly reasonable to believe that Baldwin was not lying. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.
 
Sci said:
Seems to me that even if Baldwin is not legally responsible for the immediate action that killed the cinematographer, he is, as one of the film's producers, partially responsible for creating the conditions on-set that led to the accident -- that is, for choosing to hire inexperienced staff and cut corners so much that other staff members walked off out of safety concerns the morning before the accident. And the fact that he won't accept any responsibility for having created those conditions, and that he says he feels no guilt at all, to me is evidence of a fundamental amorality at play here. This is a guy whose choices created a line of dominoes that resulted in someone dying, and he's most concerned with saving his own ass instead of taking responsibility for his choices.
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I don’t fault anyone for pursuing their own legal defense to the best of their ability so long as doing so does not cause any further harm. It’s practically a necessity in the current state of the legal system where prosecutors are incentivized more to get a result, any result, than to make sure it’s the correct one.
 
Trekker4747 said:
"Experts prove Alec Baldwin is lying! It's impossible for a gun to go off without pressure on the trigger."
... "Unless..."

I wonder if this was anyone else other than Alec Bladwin if so many Right Wingers would be so, er, "triggered" by these events and statements.

It's not easy to come out and just say Baldwin "lied" in the interview when there's the possibility the gun was malfunctioning or damaged in a way to make the "impossible" "possible."

Alec Baldwin made fun of Trump on a show that's been making fun of the sitting president since it started airing 45 years ago. Get over it.

Accidents happen, this was an accident with many levels of fault to spread around between Baldwin and the rest of the crew involved with firearm safety on the set.

If this was any other actor no one would be putting this passion into it. But Baldwin made fun of Our Lord and Savior. So, let's crucify him.
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I am by no means a right-winger, (dues paying Liberal Gun Club member, actually) but believe he's either lying or incredibly deluded. As he would want to avoid any kind of legal issues resulting from what happened, it might have factored into what he said. He should have just kept his mouth shut. But now that he's said it, its in the public forum for discussion. Personally. I do think he's lying. Negligent discharges happen. The things that were setup in movies to prevent that from happening in this case all failed.

And yes, I know a lot of right-wingers have it in for him. He mocked their orange god for years, and was good at it. They are happier than a dog with a bone that he's being taken down in public, and they don't care that someone innocent had to die to do it. From one very bizarre point of view, Baldwin had enemies who would not necessarily benefit strategically but would still appreciate the downfall of the man being arranged so handily, even at the expense of collateral damage. I'm waiting for that conspiracy theory to pick up speed. Either way, his claim makes no sense.

But he's almost certainly not the person who loaded that revolver with live rounds, checked it, and handed it him.
 
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