Akoochemoya

[Oddish]

IIRC he equated the Prime Directive with fascism.

He should've watched "Starship Troopers" Now that's some space fascism!

Indeed. We are told a lot of times that space is dangerous but there are times it isn't shown to be such. Voyager suffered from saying that things were rough and yet the reset button made sure none of that stuck.

Ship was pristine, nobody died, and they were able to pop out better shuttles than a Federation shipyard could.

And the disturbing thing is that's not even on my top 5 list of Voyager mistakes!

Chakotay quite obviously is flirting with Janeway for at least half the show's run. He leans in close, talks in a half-whisper (and YES, when he calls her 'Katherine',

And Janeway flirted back, as I recall.

 

[fireproof78]

He should've watched "Starship Troopers" Now that's some space fascism!

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[MarkusTay]

In its defense, there were like three episodes where Voyager had 'Borg Bits' stuck to the hull, and they made mention several times during those episodes that repairs (to remove that stuff) were underway, and it diminished a little at a time, not all at once (I just watched those episodes again last night). So while that's not a big thing, and it was just 2-3 episodes total, at least we saw the ship slowly 'healing'.

And also, by rewatching these, I discovered the main reason why the ship no longer had power/resource problems. In the episode where they jetison the warp core, and that race of ungrateful turds takes it, Seven ends the episode by showing them - and the VOYAGER CREW - how to replicate Thorium. This was knowledge that the Federation did not possess until then, and Thorium was used to power all of the Caatati's tech, including their replicators. That means that Seven had given Voyager a readily manufactured energy source.

Oh, and I think it was the female Q who showed B'lanna how to easily multiply their shield-power by a factor of ten! I think Voyager was a MUCH better ship when it returned to the Alpha Quadrant then when it left. If not for Janeway & Co., The Federation would not have been able to go on to be the tyrannical space emp... errrr... beneficent space-government ruling over everyone that it became.

And Janeway flirted back, as I recall.

Oh, absolutely!

And it started almost immediately, which didn't sit well with me. She kept pining away for 'Mark', but was very flirty, not just with Chakotay, but also with that Sikarian fellow, and she put her hands on Paris and Harry a LOT. She was very touchy-feely with everyone (inappropriate for the captain of a ship, IMO), but I think more so with those two (a hand on the arm while talking to them, and hand on the shoulder while they sitting at their stations, etc.) Now, my name is Mark, which is probably why it stands out to me so much more - STOP acting like the dude is everything to you, when you forget all about him when some debonair fellow is making googly eyes with you.

To be honest, I almost feel like doing a video showcasing the interactions between Janeway and Chakoytay, because they were VERY flirtatious. But then I remember I am lazy and don't. LOL

 

[Ragitsu]

she put her hands on Paris and Harry a LOT. She was very touchy-feely with everyone (inappropriate for the captain of a ship, IMO), but I think more so with those two (a hand on the arm while talking to them, and hand on the shoulder while they sitting at their stations, etc.)

This may be a cultural/temporal practice; I myself am accustomed to people in close contact and so I wouldn't be bothered by the hands.

 

[Oddish]

Remember that this was before Covid19, and it was a little more commonplace for people to touch each other.

 

[at Quark's]

I think he transformed into Janeway's lapdog too quickly. I think he could have been way more interesting as someone who was mostly loyal to Janeway, but who had a few red lines he would not let her pass (especially when it came to his former Maquis crew), regardless of the consequences.

Probably would have needed a storyline with more Maquis-Starfleet conflict within the crew as well, though.

 

[Ragitsu]

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[Oddish]

Interesting... I think he called her "Kathryn" more in "Coda" than the rest of the series put together. Including the episode where she told him to call her "Kathryn".

 

[at Quark's]

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LOL, 1:49 '[These are the most pointless subtitles I've ever written]'.

 

[fireproof78]

I think he transformed into Janeway's lapdog too quickly. I think he could have been way more interesting as someone who was mostly loyal to Janeway, but who had a few red lines he would not let her pass (especially when it came to his former Maquis crew), regardless of the consequences.

Probably would have needed a storyline with more Maquis-Starfleet conflict within the crew as well, though.

Agreed. The conflict was wrapped up too neatly. As well as the conflict between Chakotay and Paris.

 

[Oddish]

A lot of things got wrapped up too quickly, at the cost of both story development and character development.

 

[Lynx]

"Give me better scripts, damnit!"

--- --- ---

Good morning.

What did you think of Robert Beltran and his character of Chakotay? Was he given enough to chew on or should he have played a more prominent role? Was he hosed by the politics of broadcast television at the time? Did you find his attitude during interviews unreasonable or did he have a point?

Chakotay is a great character. My No: 2 favorite in the series after Kes.

With skilled and interested writers, Chakotay could have been one of the best "Number ones" in Star Trek, maybe even better than Riker and Kira. The character definitely had potential.

Unfortunately the sloppy and uninspired writing did bring down the character. So did also the crap with the made-up tribe. Would it have been so difficult to give him a real tribe, like the Mayans?

An episodfe like "Tattoo" would have been great if they had skipped the whole "rubber tree people" crap and instead had Chakotay stranded on an alien planet where the jungle landscape gave him flashbacks from his childhood in a real Central American tribe.

As it is, "Tattoo" is saved by the subplot with The Doctor's simulated flu which at least is funny.

Unfortunately, it got even worse from season 4 and onwards when Chakotay was totally shoved in the background. No surprise that Beltran got angry and frustrated.

Still, Chakotay was great when he was given the opportunity to be that in some episodes.

And Beltran did a great job in portraying the character.

 

[Oddish]

With skilled and interested writers, Chakotay could have been one of the best "Number ones" in Star Trek, maybe even better than Riker and Kira. The character definitely had potential.

Alas, the skilled and interested writers were over having fun on DS9. Voyager seems to have gotten the "other guys", the ones who have trouble counting to 38.

Unfortunately the sloppy and uninspired writing did bring down the character. So did also the crap with the made-up tribe. Would it have been so difficult to give him a real tribe, like the Mayans?

Are the Mayans still prevalent today? For some reason I thought the tribe no longer existed.

Unfortunately, it got even worse from season 4 and onwards when Chakotay was totally shoved in the background. No surprise that Beltran got angry and frustrated.

He reportedly tried to get himself fired by asking for more money, but instead getting it.

And Beltran did a great job in portraying the character.

Beltran was a very competent actor. All of the Voyager main cast members were. Some just had more to do than others.

 

[Lynx]

Alas, the skilled and interested writers were over having fun on DS9. Voyager seems to have gotten the "other guys", the ones who have trouble counting to 38.

That can clearly be seen. DS9 is from beginning to end filled with character development and surprising twist and turns in the continuing saga, the result of creative people who really inspired each other to to come up with creative stuff. Voyager on the other hand was even in its best moments dragged down with continuity errors and lame storytelling. There are Voyager episodes I really love but where I sometimes find the stories a bit weak and filled with plot holes.

Are the Mayans still prevalent today? For some reason I thought the tribe no longer existed.

yes, they still exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_peoples

He reportedly tried to get himself fired by asking for more money, but instead getting it.

I can understand that he wanted out but for once I'm happy that he had to stay. It would hade been terrible if Chakotay had been killed off

Beltran was a very competent actor. All of the Voyager main cast members were. Some just had more to do than others.

Especially after season 3.

 

[Oddish]

yes, they still exist.

How little did I know. Thanks for enlightening me.

can understand that he wanted out but for once I'm happy that he had to stay. It would [have] been terrible if Chakotay had been killed off

I'm not sure I agree with that. As a writer, I've had characters who I liked, but who had become problematic for some reason. The one I think most about is a young person who was the third in the triangle in a crucial romance... I had not introduced an alternative character for him to "move on" to, but it was counterproductive to have him mooning for this young woman indefinitely. So, I arranged a suitably heroic death for him, milked it for as much emotion as I could, and the problem was resolved.

Given that Chakotay was a character who had been consigned to stagnation, maybe eliminating him would have been a better fate.

EDIT: It's funny, I was in another forum, talking Cardassians. I remember saying Garak was a great character. Dukat was great character. And Seska had potential. I think that that's the difference between DS9 and VOY... greatness vs. potential.

 

[Ragitsu]

I arranged a suitably heroic death for him, milked it for as much emotion as I could, and the problem was resolved.

...

maybe eliminating him would have been a better fate.

That reminds me of...

You think you’re God? You think you can just make up stuff? Play with people’s lives and kill them when you think it adds to the drama?

 

[Oddish]

That's why you don't create sentient holodeck characters.

 

[Ragitsu]

Ohhhh, you're my best friend in a world we must defend!

 

[Farscape One]

So, Chuck from SUPERNATURAL.

 

[Oddish]

More Jack Slater in "Last Action Hero"...

"Hey, I just found out I was imaginary. I mean, how would you feel if somebody made you up? Your job, your marriage, your kids. Oh, yeah. Let’s push his son off the building. Gives you nightmares for the rest of your life. But you’re fictional, so who cares? I’m sorry. But I don’t find this new and exciting to discover that my whole life has been a damn movie.”