Akoochemoya

[Ragitsu]

"Give me better scripts, damnit!"

--- --- ---

Good morning.

What did you think of Robert Beltran and his character of Chakotay? Was he given enough to chew on or should he have played a more prominent role? Was he hosed by the politics of broadcast television at the time? Did you find his attitude during interviews unreasonable or did he have a point?

 

[fireproof78]

What are his attitudes during interviews?

Also, he wasn't given nearly enough. His backstory was completely inconsistent, due to using a conman's works. So, yeah, if they had actually built a character that was consistent Chakotay could have been fine.

 

[Oddish]

I'm sorry to say this, because I did like the character, but given their decision not to do anything significant with the character... they should have killed him off. In a properly heroic manner, of course.

One, it would have been an emotional gut punch for the audience, and a reminder that the Delta Quadrant was dangerous, and no one was totally safe.

Two, it would have Janeway a stronger first officer in Tuvok. Maybe he could have reined her in a bit more when she went a bit nuts.

Three, while I agree that it was probably right that the J/C ship didn't sail, I think there were some unresolved feelings. A deceased Chakotay might have let Janeway confront those feelings without being in a position to act on them.

4. If they did it early enough, they could have kept Kes (and Harry) and still gotten Seven.

We'll see what happens with him in "Prodigy"... hopefully, it will be good enough to make me eat my words.

 

[Summer Solstice]

What did you think of Robert Beltran and his character of Chakotay? Was he given enough to chew on or should he have played a more prominent role? Was he hosed by the politics of broadcast television at the time? Did you find his attitude during interviews unreasonable or did he have a point?

Chakotay had plenty of character development in season 2, and lots to do in seasons 1, 3 and 4. After that it did feel like he often didn't have much to do, but I can't think of any time Chakotay was in a scene that didn't really fit in the episode and felt like it had just been added so he'd have some lines that week. But it's easy for any of the bridge crew to have lines, they just need to be in one of the bridge scenes. In the later seasons, I think there were less episodes with Chakotay outside of the bridge scenes.

I haven't seen interviews with Robert Beltran, just relatively recent convention panels, so I don't know when he started saying his character didn't have enough character development.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

I like Chakotay the way he is. Mostly.
However, he became much more interesting in the relaunch books even though I am not a big fan of those.

I did hear that in later seasons he couldn't give a damn about his role and he often didn't even learn his lines.
Before IMDB was destroyed, someone once said in a forum that he was a close relative of Robert Beltran's. No idea if it was true or not but he said that at family reunions mentioning Star Trek Voyager to Beltran was like a red rag to a bull.

As a character, I liked Chakotay, so I really wouldn't like to have seen him killed off.

However, if the actor wanted to get out of the show, I really see no reason why they couldn't just let him go. There was so much potential to bring in people (Captain Ransom, for example). Or bring back people. Kes, for example.

 

[Oddish]

As a character, I liked Chakotay, so I really wouldn't like to have seen him killed off.

I liked him as well.

While there's a certain satisfaction in finally wiping out a character you dislike, that's not the only reason for eliminating them. You might do it with a character you do like because their loss propels the plot, or to neutralize a love triangle, or because they're just not going anywhere.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

Chakotay was... alright. Not the most dynamic and interesting member of the crew but he served a purpose.

I do wonder what would've happened though if he'd gotten killed off, B'Elanna had been promoted to first officer (as the next highest ranking Maquis) and Kim had become chief engineer. She'd be more interesting in an argument than Tuvok, but maybe giving Janeway a more assertive XO would've weakened Seven's role.

 

[fireproof78]

Chakotay was... alright. Not the most dynamic and interesting member of the crew but he served a purpose.

I do wonder what would've happened though if he'd gotten killed off, B'Elanna had been promoted to first officer (as the next highest ranking Maquis) and Kim had become chief engineer. She'd be more interesting in an argument than Tuvok, but maybe giving Janeway a more assertive XO would've weakened Seven's role.

I think B'Elanna as the most senior Maquis would have been an amazing drama.

 

[Oddish]

Given that by the second season, the Maquis were pretty well integrated, there was no reason why the first officer would have to be one. And Tuvok outranked B'Elanna by two full grades (comparatively, both B'Elanna and Tom only outranked Harry by one).

 

[fireproof78]

Given that by the second season, the Maquis were pretty well integrated, there was no reason why the first officer would have to be one. And Tuvok outranked B'Elanna by two full grades (comparatively, both B'Elanna and Tom only outranked Harry by one).

Well sure, but maybe that doesn't sit well with B'Elanna and without Chakotay there as the balancing act she struggles a bit with a sense of identity, similar to the whole Klingon struggle she had.

 

[MarkusTay]

He called his captain by her first name way too often - it got annoying after awhile. Its an old marketing ploy, that I've learned to dislike (salesman are taught to use your first name over and over, to establish an false sense of "I am your friend and wouldn't steer you wrong" kind of vibe - its Business 101).

The only one who gets to call the captain by their first name is Bones, and he earned that crap.
And the swap between Kes and Seven should have taken longer, at least half a season. One episode? Seven went from, "human? NEVER!" to Kes leaving and Seven immediately doing a 180 and saying, "I will help this crew any way I can". It was just all so... synthetic.

But getting back to Chakotay - he was a tough one. Too quickly he went from being a violent Maquis to being a devoted and utterly loyal Janeway fanboi almost instantly... and then suddenly decided he had a enough chasing miss Ice-bloomers and went after easy picken's (a fully developed human female with the social skills of a six year old). Its like they had no idea what to do with him (and the same can be said for several characters on the show). And I agree there should have been at least TWO major (main) crew deaths during the run, and NOT just the ones that betrayed them. There is a good reason why shows like GoT and TWD became so popular.

 

[Oddish]

I thought Seven was Miss Ice Bloomers.

 

[Ragitsu]

There is a good reason why shows like GoT and TWD became so popular.

Arguably a depressing sociological reason.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

What are his attitudes during interviews?

IIRC he equated the Prime Directive with fascism. Also he freely admits he was phoning it in for the last 3-4 seasons. Something along the lines of "they didn't write anything good for me so I stopped giving a fuck".

I like Robert Beltran a lot more than I like Chakotay.

 

[fireproof78]

And I agree there should have been at least TWO major (main) crew deaths during the run, and NOT just the ones that betrayed them. There is a good reason why shows like GoT and TWD became so popular.

Indeed. We are told a lot of times that space is dangerous but there are times it isn't shown to be such. Voyager suffered from saying that things were rough and yet the reset button made sure none of that stuck.

 

[Ragitsu]

IIRC he equated the Prime Directive with fascism.

The (later) hardline interpretations were certainly apathetic, but the Prime Directive was ultimately designed to be a bulwark against colonialism and imperialism in addition to preventing self-destruction thanks to advanced technology; I wonder if Beltran missed its original intention.

 

[Kor]

He called his captain by her first name way too often - it got annoying after awhile. Its an old marketing ploy, that I've learned to dislike (salesman are taught to use your first name over and over, to establish an false sense of "I am your friend and wouldn't steer you wrong" kind of vibe - its Business 101).

The only one who gets to call the captain by their first name is Bones, and he earned that crap.
...

I'm not so sure. Spock also called Kirk by his first name in more emotional moments. Scotty addressed Kirk by first name exactly one time when it looked like Kirk was going to doom himself to staying the Mirror Universe. Picard had Dr. Crusher address him by first name on occasion. Sisko had Dax calling him Benjamin all the time. And Pike had Dr. Boyce call him Chris. Each captain seems to have certain close associates in the chain of command who they have a friendship with and who address them by first name. I can't remember exactly when Chakotay started calling Janeway by her first name, or whether it could really be considered "earned" or not. But I wonder if there was anyone else in the crew who should have had that kind of a rapport with Janeway instead of Chakotay. It would have been funny it it was Harry. Or Naomi WIldman.

Anyway, Chakotay isn't one of my favorite characters. There was some potential in the beginning, but the inconsistencies in his background were frustrating, and Beltran didn't seem very dynamic in his acting in that role. I wonder how he is in other roles. I can't remember if I've ever seen him in anything else.

Kor

 

[Ragitsu]

It probably didn't help that fundamentals of his character were informed by a fraud.

 

[MarkusTay]

There are a lot of famous frauds, but one of my favorites is this guy -

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

I thought Seven was Miss Ice Bloomers.

I suppose its all how you look at it. Chakotay quite obviously is flirting with Janeway for at least half the show's run. He leans in close, talks in a half-whisper (and YES, when he calls her 'Katherine', he says in such a way that it would be creepy AF if Bones said 'Jim' that way LOL) Then she looks a dude in the eye (who everyone on the ship - including her - was friends with) and orders him killed, and Chakotay was like, "let me rethink my goals here". He should have known this was something amiss when she had squishy fish babies with Paris (she planned that all along, or do you think starship captains always go to penal colonies looking for new crew?)

But Seven being an Ice Queen? "Harry, are you attracted to me? Okay, lets have some human-style intercourse... I can use the practice". The poor girl had the inability to see through a compliment the way a grown woman would, severe mommy/daddy and abandonment issues, and a strong desire to just be liked. Oh yeah... VERY easy pickings. Hell, even an old, bald, holographic doctor got to break-off a piece. You know what they say... "Borg Girls are easy". LMAO

 

[Ragitsu]

I suppose its all how you look at it. Chakotay quite obviously is flirting with Janeway for at least half the show's run.