Spoilers AHSOKA series [Spoiler Discussion]

[Reverend]

Even if this show takes place before the other shows, it's still years after the events of ROTJ. It would be weird for them to have not met yet.

Why? It's a big galaxy, and they're both living as hermit-nomads. Seems like it would be very easy for them to have never met until then, especially if one of them was actively avoiding it and the other doesn't know Ahsoka even exists.

Looking for a short cut, as the villains usually are.

Yep. He wanted access to Force powers then and there and as soon as possible and beyond what it could have done for him I doubt he put too much thought into it.

More to the point; he fundamentally misunderstood the force. He just saw it as a source of power you can unlock, or a resource to exploit. He thought he was being smart by bypassing the mysticism and attacking it with just science, except the force is both of those things.
With that kind of mindset, no amount of meditation or training would have gotten him anywhere because it starts with the mind, and his was closed shut.

As far as Sabine goes; let's remember that she's comparing herself to Ezra, who was a prodigy. IIRC FPJ described his take of Kanan's mindset at the start of the show being akin to that of an older mid-skilled musician that was good in his day but only because he worked his arse off, but has lost his passion for it and hasn't touched in instrument in years . . . and then he runs into this kid who's basically Mozart, and he's looking to him for mentorship. It's a nice allegory that explains a lot of Kanan's early reservations and struggles with self-confidence, but also give you a clear idea that Ezra was always operating on a different level than anyone else. Not unlike Anakin, Luke to a lesser extent, and perhaps Rey too.

But who is it we generally think of as the quintessential Jedi? It's Kenobi, who like Kanan was by no means a prodigy, who got as good as he got due to struggle and perseverance. The greatest teacher failure is after all, and like Kenobi, Sabine has failed a lot. She'll do fine. Indeed the stubbornness will probably help just a soon as Ahsoka figures out have to help her channel it better.

Ah, but was Luke's story central to that of Boba Fett's?

Almost anyone can push a piano key and sound a note, but very few have the talent/capability to be a concert pianist.

I'd say that a bit of a false equivalence. First off: Those scenes weren't about Luke at all, they were about Grogu. BoBF is an entirely different animal than this show. It was clearly Mando Season 2.5; part of an ongoing story, and those two episodes were explicitly the "let's catch up with Din & Grogu before the finale" part of the story. Luke being there made sense and was important to the plot because this was Grogu's story.

Plus I think we all know which Skywalker is the more likely to show up; the one that we know for a fact it vitally relevant to Ahsoka's story and has already been name dropped just so the newbies are on board.

 

[Set Harth]

More to the point; he fundamentally misunderstood the force. He just saw it as a source of power you can unlock, or a resource to exploit. He thought he was being smart by bypassing the mysticism and attacking it with just science, except the force is both of those things.

It's a particle AND a wave!

 

[fireproof78]

Yep. He wanted access to Force powers then and there and as soon as possible and beyond what it could have done for him I doubt he put too much thought into it.

Like Balloq and the Ark.

 

[Gaith]

I'd say that a bit of a false equivalence. First off: Those scenes weren't about Luke at all, they were about Grogu.

Grogu didn't have anything to do with Boba Fett's story, either. He was a deus ex cuteyoda, at best.

 

[fireproof78]

Grogu didn't have anything to do with Boba Fett's story, either. He was a deus ex cuteyoda, at best.

Worst episodes of Boba Fett in my opinion as including that little cuteyoda.

 

[Reverend]

Grogu didn't have anything to do with Boba Fett's story, either. He was a deus ex cuteyoda, at best.

Like I said; the whole show was Mando 2.5. Yes it was about Boba, but it's also a direct spin-off of Mando. It helps that I tend to think of all four of those seasons as a sort of hybrid anthology show, where the first two seasons were the Din & Grogu arcs, the third was the Boba arc, and the forth was mostly Bo Katan's story. Din just happens to be the connecting thread.

Also if you can think of any other character that can make a Rancor go sleepybyes and hasn't either put Boba in jail as a child, or been semi-responsible for Boba getting an impromptu tour of a sarlacc's digestive chambers thus making an appearance at that time socially awkward, I'd like to hear it!

 

[Charles Phipps]

A lot of work is being done to thread the needle of, "Why did the New Republic fall so quickly to the First Order?" A lesson that a lot of us were questioning given the First Order seemed like a bunch of ranting insane children. Here, the lesson seems that the Republic just stopped caring about destroying the Empire's remnants after Jakku and gave everyone a slap on the wrist once Palpatine was dead.

I mean, it's an UNUSUAL Aesop but, "the problem was you didn't try and execute/imprison all the Space Nazis when the war ended" isn't necessarily a BAD Aesop. It's one that certainly has applications in the rural South I grew up in. I mean, we know from The Force Awakens that the number of unreconstructed Imperials is massive and that the New Republic not prosecuting/imprisoning them was a major factor in their downfall.

History tends to dramatically underplay the efforts to De-Nazi Europe that did involve a lot of trials, arrests, and imprisonments/executions. In this case, these guys are continuing terrorist activities to revive a regime that practiced slavery. Also, while it failed, Ulysses S. Grant created the KKK Act (which was recently used against a certain ex-US President) to suppress the people who continued to do terrorist attacks against innocent blacks as well as revive the Confederacy. Which is to say, "is it evil to kill/imprison members of an ideology that practices slavery and genocide?"

Plus, there's the fact after ANDOR, we have someone saying, "Yeah, the working class don't care about who is in charge as long as they get paid." Yes, an Ex-Imperial said it but is it actually show's opinion? The working class having zero class consciousness and being loyal to fascist governments that prey upon their fear of the Other is hardly a new thing. Karl Marx brought it up and pointed out plenty of people rally behind authoritarian leaders and populist demagogues. It's important to remember if the Empire is made of space Nazis, it's not going to be composed of the upper class and nobility but mostly reactionary middle and lower class racists. It's sad that the biggest nod to this in Kenobi is the trucker alien.

Making Sabine a Jedi apprentice is an out of left field moment. Kanan was training her in swordfighting, not the force. Yet, I'm not put off by it either. I like the idea that Sabine is like Chirrut. She doesn't have the potential to be a Jedi of the Old Order but that was never the point the way the Prequel Jedi made it. Being a Jedi is about what you believe, not what you can do. But yeah, with a decade of training, you can do some simple tricks and nonsense.

 

[Crewman6]

Why? It's a big galaxy, and they're both living as hermit-nomads. Seems like it would be very easy for them to have never met until then, especially if one of them was actively avoiding it and the other doesn't know Ahsoka even exists.

Luke certainly isn't living as a "hermit/nomad."

Luke Skywalker would basically be a household name after the events of ROTJ and one would think Ahsoka would be highly motivated to meet him, even if Luke wasn't aware of her existence.

But Luke also did a deep dive into Jedi business after the OT, so it's plausible he could have found out about her and sought her out.

Yes, big galaxy and all, but it seems unlikely to me they wouldn't have crossed paths deliberately in the post ROTJ/pre Ahsoka time frame.

 

[fireproof78]

I mean, I don't see Ahsoka seeking Luke out. Not after the pain of her last confrontation with Vader/Anakin and worrying over the Empire.

Luke Skywalker would basically be a household name after the events of ROTJ

At the risk of sounding contrarian, but why? Luke was not in the battle, he was not on Endor. He surrendered himself to Vader and then went and fought Vader with no witnesses. Lando, Han and Leia and Ackbar and them I could see as household names but Luke's is rather easy to downplay. We saw it, but that doesn't meant it was seen by the galaxy.

 

[Reverend]

Luke certainly isn't living as a "hermit/nomad."

No you're totally right, I stand corrected! Ossus is clearly a bustling metropolis, and not at all a deserted world on which he is the only non-droid resident. And all those solitary trips around the galaxy searching for lost lore, and unearthing relics on remote worlds is TOTALLY the behaviour of a firmly settle person, laying down roots. What was I thinking? It's not like words actually mean things after all!

At the risk of sounding contrarian, but why? Luke was not in the battle, he was not on Endor. He surrendered himself to Vader and then went and fought Vader with no witnesses. Lando, Han and Leia and Ackbar and them I could see as household names but Luke's is rather easy to downplay. We saw it, but that doesn't meant it was seen by the galaxy.

Also hard to credit that a person can go from "household name" to "myth" in the span of a single generation. A person mostly only spoken of in rumour and tall tales on the other hand? Very easily.

 

[Ithekro]

I wonder if we will get the Ahsoka meets Luke story in Tales of the Jedi, possibly with some of Ahsoka and Sabine's first go as master and apprentice.

 

[Reverend]

I wonder if we will get the Ahsoka meets Luke story in Tales of the Jedi, possibly with some of Ahsoka and Sabine's first go as master and apprentice.

There's certainly potential for that kind of thing, but given the limited number of episodes I'd personally rather they use them to tell more substantial and meaningful stories. Leave the superfluous hole filling to the books & comics; it suits that medium better.

 

[thribs]

I do like the apprentice girl. She gave me Hit Girl vibes. They should redeem her and make her Luke’s padawan

 

[Crewman6]

I mean, I don't see Ahsoka seeking Luke out. Not after the pain of her last confrontation with Vader/Anakin and worrying over the Empire.


At the risk of sounding contrarian, but why? Luke was not in the battle, he was not on Endor. He surrendered himself to Vader and then went and fought Vader with no witnesses. Lando, Han and Leia and Ackbar and them I could see as household names but Luke's is rather easy to downplay. We saw it, but that doesn't meant it was seen by the galaxy.

The ST establishes that the legend of Luke Skywalker was known far and wide.

And of course the Republic would not have been shy about sharing that information. "Hey, the Jedi are back! They defeated the Emperor! Cool, check this guy out! He already blew up the 1st Death Star!"

Luke would be very well-known unless they took specific pains to keep his actions secret. Which, why would they? The propaganda value alone would be priceless.

But, as I said, the ST establishes that Luke was so well-known it even went to his head.

 

[Crewman6]

nevermind.

 

[Crewman6]

There's certainly potential for that kind of thing, but given the limited number of episodes I'd personally rather they use them to tell more substantial and meaningful stories. Leave the superfluous hole filling to the books & comics; it suits that medium better.

Hole-filling is pretty much exactly what Tales of the Jedi has been doing. I think that's a solid idea, as long as they use Mark for real and not a creepy-ass artificial monstrosity.

 

[fireproof78]

The ST establishes that the legend of Luke Skywalker was known far and wide.

And of course the Republic would not have been shy about sharing that information. "Hey, the Jedi are back! They defeated the Emperor! Cool, check this guy out! He already blew up the 1st Death Star!"

Luke would be very well-known unless they took specific pains to keep his actions secret. Which, why would they? The propaganda value alone would be priceless.

But, as I said, the ST establishes that Luke was so well-known it even went to his head.

Which is fine but I don't see that as a "household name." Simply a legend.

And, no, I don't think that means Ahsoka would seek him out at first opportunity.

 

[Reverend]

Just for fun, I thought I'd (approximately) plot out the map in the credits end-to-end to see if there's any larger context to be gathered, or if it's mostly just being artful.

I do note that the style of the Loth Wolf & Purrgill matches that of the cave drawings on Lothal. Also while it's not 1:1, some of the proximities of certain planets do vaguely match up with the official maps. Also the systems we know are on the outer rim are appropriately spare of neighbours, while the core systems have a lot of company. So there's at least some thought been put into the structure of this.

 

[Crewman6]

Which is fine but I don't see that as a "household name." Simply a legend.

But your distinction is meaningless. Luke would be as major a figure and as well-known as someone like George Washington - an absolutely vital, central figure to the Alliance's victory and the end of the Empire.

Unless, as I said, they deliberately concealed that information. But why would they?

And, no, I don't think that means Ahsoka would seek him out at first opportunity.

Agree to disagree.

 

[fireproof78]

Unless, as I said, they deliberately concealed that information. But why would they?

His connection to Vader.