After Trek 11 replace TOS 1701 with prequel Enterprise

[Timo]

I see no evidence of deliberate departure here yet. What I do see, after having had the chance to view the entire trailer, is that they have scaled up the ship quite a bit from TMP.

Which basically leaves TMP as the reboot it always was, from the treknology point of view at least. TOS, TAS and even the TNG-era reshoots of the related models have always agreed with the "about twice as big as claimed backstage" scaling of the big E... TMP showed an implausibly small variant instead.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FordSVT]

mada101 said:
I'd imagine that if you want to try and squeeze the new movie into old canon, you'll have to squint your eyes a bit and ignore a few things (either from the new ship or the old ones)

Yeah, like I've been doing since TOS.

As long as it's 75% visually accurate and doesn't directly contradict anything that has been empirically stated during the series, I'm more than happy to accept this with open arms into the mythology. I think that's what they're shooting for, and I think that's how you make a movie that appeals to both "Us" and "Them". There are people pissed because they don't think the bridge will have nothing but a bunch of static screens and big flashing rainbow buttons. No matter what way you cut it, that just won't work for a new audience.

Those who don't are setting themselves up for some pretty hard times down the road when everyone else is having fun discussing the movie in relationship to the rest of the series and all you'll be able to say is "I don't think it's canon", and you'll get a bunch of and and everyone else will move on.

Remember, there are people who don't accept anything after TOS or ST:TMP as "canon", and they don't seem to have any fun at all.

For viewing purposes, I've always pretended that Trek is "real" in the future, and we're just looking at their events through the cinematic lens of our time. Makes it pretty easy to reconcile inconsistent visual effects like FTL starships standing nose to nose, unmoving during battle in TNG, and zipping all over the place in DS9.

 

[Woulfe]

Poll ?

 

[Warped9]

As has already been mentioned--and something I've put forth and argued myself in the past--every new incarnation of Trek has been some sort of reboot. The trick has always been how much leeway one is willing to allow and still be able to rationalize each new incarnation as part of a larger whole as well as still part of the original TOS continuity. We all have a line we refuse to cross in terms of continuity.

Trek XI will be canon in its own right, but whether it is actually of the same continuity as TOS is another question. I've made the same argument before particularly in regards to ENT. And from my perspective Trek XI is as canon as ENT even though neither are of the same original continuity as TOS. But likely ENT and Trek XI are of the same continuity and very much canon in regards to each other.

But back to the original subject at hand. I admit to being most curious in seeing this reimagining of the ship even if I don't accept it as the same ship from TOS' continuity. And I would certainly resist and resent any move to replace the original ship in the TOS episodes with this reimagined version.

And, truly, it makes more sense to start afresh then to try force-fitting a contemporary looking project into the continuity of a forty year old series. That said, though, I still believe it would have been better to simply do a more straightforward "strange new world" adventure story set early in the 5-year voyage then concocting an "origin" type story.

 

[Holytomato]

The Cage Enterprise was originally going to be what became the TMP design with the pythons and nacelles that were given to the Enterprise-E.

But it was too expensive to create the curved angles.

Then, later the Phase II movie design added some of these elements. Then the Phase II tv series design did too. Then These were combined to become...the TMP design.

So, the Star Trek XI design is what was we were supposed to have seen from the beginning ie 1964.

 

[cooleddie74]

For all we know, this is what the Enterprise looked like before "The Cage" and some pre-2254/Talos mission refit in Spacedock.

 

[monetteman]

I hope that they Re-master everything to conform with the new vision. CGI faces can be phased in over shatner, nimoy,and kelly. Every aspect of the new film should be fitted into TOS. This is the only way for Star Trek to move forward.

 

[Warped9]

Holytomato said:
The Cage Enterprise was originally going to be what became the TMP design with the pythons and nacelles that were given to the Enterprise-E.

But it was too expensive to create the curved angles.

Then, later the Phase II movie design added some of these elements. Then the Phase II tv series design did too. Then These were combined to become...the TMP design.

So, the Star Trek XI design is what was we were supposed to have seen from the beginning ie 1964.

Nonsense. Or perhaps I should say bullshit. I, too, have seen sketches of the E in early development and there's no indication that what we're seeing now was the way it was meant to be. Indeed, Roddenberry insisted there should be nothing like wings or fins on the design and yet lo-and-behold we are seeing evidence of something fin like on the nacelles of the Trek XI redesign.

 

[starburst]

TO be fair the fins were on the original ship, its just on the new one they are more fin like

 

[Warped9]

starburst said:
TO be fair the fins were on the original ship, its just on the new one they are more fin like

Can I have some of your drugs? The nacelle intercoolers are NOT fins and were never meant to be. There's nothing on MJ's design to even suggest fins for the purpose of aerodynamics or even the appearance of such.

 

[Outpost4]

I think he means Spock's ears, Warped9.

 

[starburst]

Warped9 said:

starburst said:
TO be fair the fins were on the original ship, its just on the new one they are more fin like

Can I have some of your drugs? The nacelle intercoolers are NOT fins and were never meant to be. There's nothing on MJ's design to even suggest fins for the purpose of aerodynamics or even the appearance of such.

why would they need to be aerodynamic the ship was never meant to opperate inside an atmosphere...and i never called them fins i just said the bits which you are refering to where there on the original they are just more fin like now

 

[Warped9]

starburst said:

Warped9 said:

starburst said:
TO be fair the fins were on the original ship, its just on the new one they are more fin like

Can I have some of your drugs? The nacelle intercoolers are NOT fins and were never meant to be. There's nothing on MJ's design to even suggest fins for the purpose of aerodynamics or even the appearance of such.

why would they need to be aerodynamic the ship was never meant to opperate inside an atmosphere...and i never called them fins i just said the bits which you are refering to where there on the original they are just more fin like now

And why would a design get less streamlined as it was upgraded particularly within a society that deliberately considers aesthetics even for a construct such as a starship that has absolutely zero need for it?

The Trek XI redesign is its own thing and thats fine, but it certainly isn't an earlier configuration of the ship on TOS.

 

[starburst]

It isnt supposed to be an earlier version of what you see in TOS though

 

[scotthm]

Broccoli said:
From the extreme close-up that we get, the ship looks pretty damn like the design from the original series. Okay, granted, we have more surface detail, but, honestly, that seems to be about it.

This is like saying all cars look the same because they have four tires and two bumpers.

---------------

 

[scotthm]

Warped9 said:
I still believe it would have been better to simply do a more straightforward "strange new world" adventure story set early in the 5-year voyage then concocting an "origin" type story.

I agree 100% with this.

---------------

 

[Holytomato]

People would still be complaining.

Its not 1966 or 1979 anymore.

Its 2008.

The Four Stages of Grief:

1. Shock and denial
2. Volatile Reactions
3. Disorganization and despair
4. Reorganization

:thumbsup:

 

[Captain Robert April]

starburst said:
It isnt supposed to be an earlier version of what you see in TOS though

The ship in that trailer is about twice the size of Jefferies' design.

What happened? The ship get gastric bipass surgery before Pike took command?

 

[Outpost4]

I don't even think it's the Enterprise we'll see in the movie. It's a teaser. It's only designed to get you excited. It also gets Trekkies hot and bothered, but most anything will do that.

If you ask me, the Enterprise in the teaser is huge on purpose. It gives the ship a sense of mass it rarely had on screen before and it is a great mind fuck to Trekkies. I can just see Abrams laughing at folks going, where are the three front round windows, anyway?

I found this great definition of tease that I think is most appropriate: To vex with importunity or impertinence; to harass, annoy, disturb, or irritate by petty requests, or by jests and raillery; to plague. Yes, folks, we've been teased.

 

[Warped9]

starburst said:
It isnt supposed to be an earlier version of what you see in TOS though

I agree, but there are enough folks out there insisting that it is (or should be) and that Trek XI is a prequel in the same continuity as TOS.

I think the prequel idea (at least in the form I suspect we're going to get) is a truly stupid one, but at least having the film as a reboot/restart work allows it to stand on its own merits and avoid being judged partly by whether it fits into TOS' continuity.

However, even though Trek XI can be judged on its own merits it will still be compared to TOS in many respects--much the same way Casino Royale and Batman Begins were restarts and were compared to the previous works. Fortunately CR and BB were overall excellent restarts, but I'm not nearly so assured Trek XI will be. I'm reasonably sure that Trek XI will be a decently polished looking film, but whether it will resonate in a positive manner in the right aspects is another question.