After the BORG...

[3D Master]

Tricorders or even station sensors can't even discern the difference between a changeling made into an object and the object itself. If a founder turns into a rock the sensors and tricorder will detect a rock. When you start arguing that changelings can't become pure rock you've then got to start asking well how can changelings think when they have no brains

Of course they have brains, it just isn't like any brain we've seen.

or how are they able to change their mass from that of a fully grown humanoid to the size of a drinking glass.

Dump material into subspace, and can undoubtedly also pull material back out of subspace.

Evidence would seem to suggest that when a changeling becomes an object they literally become that object or at least 99.9% of their structure does therefore it's not unreasonable to assume that a changeling can change into rock and crush any nanoprobes within them.

The fact that they can change their mass from that of a Humanoid to a small drinking glass means they can compress and condense themselves very tightly, so it's not ridiculous to believe they can condense themselves into a rock and crush even the tiniest of nanoprobes. At the end of the day nanoprobes are still just mechanical machines.

But again, rock like any material, is mostly EMPTY SPACE, with but the occasional molecule here and there. And if the nanoprobes have already infected some of those things of their bodies that changelings can't change (or they wouldn't be changelings anymore) it no longer matters what they change into, it's over.

 

[Thirishar]

Actually, no the Borg can't assimilate a shapeshifter. This was discovered in DS9 Mission Gamma Book 4: Lesser Evil, when a Borg tries to assimilate a changeling that the Defiant crew discovered living on a remote planet. The changeling was able to condense all the borg nanites together into one little ball and remove them from her body.

No, it was decided on by that particular author, it's not what would REALLY happen. We don't know what would really happen because it hasn't actually happened in the "real" Star Trek world.

First of all, I'm pretty sure there is actually a group of writers and editors that collaborate on all the new Trek books to make sure they remain consistent and plausible. A writer can't just do whatever he/she wants, like say, kill off a major character, without consulting anybody else.

Second, you do realize that all the Trek episodes were acutally written, by writers, and then actors were hired to play the characters so that it could be filmed. So saying that something is not valid becuse it was decided "by that particular author" just isn't a valid argument, because all Trek is created by authors.

Finally, there is no "real" Star Trek world. Hello! It's all Fiction. What difference does it make if it's filmed or not? Star Trek is Star Trek. It's all make believe! It isn't like every episode of Star Trek has remained completely consistent with the Star Trek "canon". I mean you have the Trill portrayed in TNG's "the Host", which are completely different than the Trill on DS9. That's just one example. I'm sure we could start a whole thread about all the inconsistencies within the TV shows. So don't tell me that just because something wasn't on TV that it didn't happen in the "real" Star Trek world.

 

[Marie1]

We all know that ST episodes were written, but ST books are not canon. Writers of the movies and series are allowed to contradict them with impunity. The book writers try to stick with the series as close as they can. And we all know this isn't real. Mostly because most of it is set in the future and we haven't made it there yet.

Also note that the books, including Mission Gamma 4 are approved by CBS- that includes major character deaths- there are editors and such to keep it all smooth, and authors are hired to write stories.

And about canon, the final word, the official one on the matter:
http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=729654&postcount=17

 

[Damask]

And if the nanoprobes have already infected some of those things of their bodies that changelings can't change (or they wouldn't be changelings anymore) it no longer matters what they change into, it's over.

Well it's a big "if". We've seen Founders removes part of their bodies if needed. Founders aren't invulnerable. We know that. They can be killed by phasers. I still think however that they have an advantage over the Borg because of the Borg's use of physical, mechanical devices.

 

[Plecostomus]

We speculated in a tabletop RPG that the Borg are the reason the Founders hate solids so much. First contact between the Founder race (possibly even thier first first contact like the one between Earth and Vulcan) and the Borg lead to an apocalyptic war... the surviving Founders bioengineered themselves in such a way that they were nigh-assimilation proof and they took it one step further, giving themselves the ability to change forms and hide from the Borg if the need arose again.

The only way to settle this is to choose for yourself in your "personal canon" wheather or not they can be assimilated. I say they can, but it would take extreme measues like 8472 required.

 

[Damask]

The only way to settle this is to choose for yourself in your "personal canon" wheather or not they can be assimilated. I say they can, but it would take extreme measues like 8472 required.

Well 8472 can't turn into clouds. It's raining nanoprobes!

 

[Marie1]

I'm naturally "voting" no for a multitude of reasons. Logic (biology), the novels which seem logical, despite being non-canon, the "how would the Borg get near a Founder" reason... etc. For that manner, the Founder would only need to be rock around the nanoprobes, or turn into a vial and collect them, or do any number of things.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Borg assimilate via nanoprobes.
Nanoprobes assimilate by infesting the bloodstream.
Changelings have no blood or bloodstreams.
Borg CANNOT assimilate Changelings.

Period.

 

[3D Master]

Borg assimilate via nanoprobes.
Nanoprobes assimilate by infesting the bloodstream.
Changelings have no blood or bloodstreams.
Borg CANNOT assimilate Changelings.

Period.

No, nanoprobes change every cell in a body; they don't need the bloodstream.

In fact, Changelings are nothing BUT semi-liquid, like blood is. It would make it easier for nanoprobes to get places if their main area of existing is the liquid part of a body.

 

[Marie1]

If Dr. Phlox's immune system could fight off Borg Nano probes, other things can too.

And there are 10-100 Trillion cells in the human body, yet there were only 3.6 million nanoprobes in 7 of 9's body.

And Founder cells are obviously not your run of the mill cells, and Founders aren't necessarily a liquid, only when regenerating.

 

[Sci]

Actually, no the Borg can't assimilate a shapeshifter. This was discovered in DS9 Mission Gamma Book 4: Lesser Evil, when a Borg tries to assimilate a changeling that the Defiant crew discovered living on a remote planet. The changeling was able to condense all the borg nanites together into one little ball and remove them from her body.

No, it was decided on by that particular author, it's not what would REALLY happen. We don't know what would really happen because it hasn't actually happened in the "real" Star Trek world.

I presume that by "real," you mean canonical.

Yeah, it's true, the canon could decide to contradict the novel. On the other hand, the canon could decide to contradict previous canon, so I don't know how that really sets the non-canonical works apart.

 

[Quagmire58]

As I understand assimilation, they only get the knowledge from the race they assimilate. Nanites reproduce any physical abilities or enhance physical abilities. If they could shape shift that would make them almost unstopable, it would be a fun storyline to explore.

 

[Marie1]

I never got the impression that assimilation enhanced their natural abilities- it may give mechanical sensors and vision, it may provide the Collective with biological intel so that assimilation etc. is easier, but a drone is a drone. They're clumsy etc., even the ones that were from agile species. And for what you're suggesting, you'd have to have a nano-probe in every cell making those cells turn into what the Collective wanted, which I imagine would be harder than it seems. And then the Borg would be unstoppable, we'd all be dead... lol