Admiral/Captain Kirk Question

[Christopher]

But several scientists have been referred to by their profession, rather than by their obvious commissioned rank. Say, Senior Geologist D'Amato, with Lieutenant's stripes, is never called "Lieutenant" by his colleagues - only Losira calls him that. And some department heads such as Chief Engineer or Chief of Security don't have the word "officer" attached to their titles, nor do they necessarily get referred to by their rank if their title is more informative in the context. Spock seldom gets called "Commander", either - but his title features the telltale word "officer", unlikely to fit enlisted status (even though I guess that could also be possible in certain special cases).

I'd thus see enough leeway to let Tomlinson be both a Lieutenant and a Specialist at the same time...

I can buy an officer being referred to by his actual job description, such as Geologist or Historian or whatever. But "Specialist" is obviously not a specific job description, and it is definitely an enlisted rating in a naval service -- particularly when you consider that Angela Martine is listed in the Concordance as a Specialist 2/C, i.e. a Specialist Second Class. That's a rating, not a job. So saying that someone can be a lieutenant and a specialist at the same time is like saying he could be a commander and a chief petty officer at the same time.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

On a related note, how did Kirk go from Captain straight to Rear-Admiral 2.5 years later, skipping over the rank of Commodore. One might argue that Star Fleet, like the USN, had by this time retired the Commodore rank and Kirk held the rank equivelent to Rear Adm (Lower Half). However, there is reference in the comm chatter in TMP to Commodore Probert, so the rank did still exist. Was Kirk promoted two whole grades after the 5ym or did he hold the rank of Commodore briefly? Has this ever been touched on in Trek Lit?

 

[Timo]

But "Specialist" is obviously not a specific job description

Then again, it's only used in dialogue when specifically referring to the phaser station: Scotty could be swallowing a few key syllables for brevity. That is, somebody in a hurry might well refer to me as a fire control specialist because that's what I do at the AAA battery, despite/because of my 2nd Lt reservist rank. Tomlinson might have been a commissioned officer specialist in some field of phaser operations, without being Specialist by formal designation.

and it is definitely an enlisted rating in a naval service

True, but we might choose to ignore that in this case, regarding it as a mere coincidence.

On a related note, how did Kirk go from Captain straight to Rear-Admiral 2.5 years later, skipping over the rank of Commodore.

Canonically, the timeline could be different. 2.5 years is merely a minimum estimate: the truth could just as well be 7-8 years.

OTOH, flag ranks are a bit different from line ranks, at least in modern USN. You don't get promoted step by step: you reach the lowest flag rung, be it Commodore or Rear Admiral Lower Half or whatnot, and then you wait for a working position to open. When one does, you get promoted to the rank required by that position, quite regardless of whether it involves skipping one, two or three ranks. After your tour of duty in that position ends, you get demoted (and usually your career is also winding to an end and you resign, but that ain't true for the long-lived 23rd century folks any more...).

So Kirk might have been promoted from Commodore to, say, Vice Admiral for his tour of duty as Chief of SF Ops, in the process earning enough brownie points to get a promotion to Rear Admiral immediately following his orderly demotion.

Of course, it would be relatively rarely that a fresh Commodore would be picked for a job that comes with Vice Admiral rank; generally, one would have available at least a couple of Rear Admirals or Vice Admirals for that job. But the heroic Commodore Kirk might well fit that rare bill.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Praetor]

FWIW, I was just flipping through my copy of the Phase II book by the Reeves-Stevenses and discovered a memo from Jon Povill to Gene Roddenberry in which he notes that costume designer Bill Theiss recalled the existence of the rank of Commodore and suggests since Commodore Decker commanded the Constellation in TOS that Kirk could be a Commodore and not have to be demoted to command the Enterprise for what became TMP.

 

[T1tanterry]

The appointment of Commodore dates to the mid-17th century: it was first used in the time of William III. There was a need for officers to command squadrons, but it was not deemed desirable to create new admirals (as Post-Captains were promoted to Rear-Admiral in order of seniority). Captains assigned squadron command were given the title of Commodore, but it was not an actual rank. The officer so designated kept his place on the list of Captains. In 1748 it was established that Captains serving as Commodores were equal to Brigadier-Generals in the Army.
Commodores could revert to the rank of Captain at the end of their posting (and Captains could be promoted directly to Rear-Admiral without ever having served as a Commodore).

^Would easily explain why Kirk was never a Commodore

 

[Praetor]

It could, yes.

 

[Mysterion]

On a related note, how did Kirk go from Captain straight to Rear-Admiral 2.5 years later, skipping over the rank of Commodore. One might argue that Star Fleet, like the USN, had by this time retired the Commodore rank and Kirk held the rank equivelent to Rear Adm (Lower Half). However, there is reference in the comm chatter in TMP to Commodore Probert, so the rank did still exist. Was Kirk promoted two whole grades after the 5ym or did he hold the rank of Commodore briefly? Has this ever been touched on in Trek Lit?

Maybe Kirk was promoted to Commodore very shortly upon the return of Enterprise from it's five-year-mission, and at the time of TMP had been recently been promoted again to the rank of Rear Admiral. This would give him about two years or so time-in-grade as a Commodore.

 

[Praetor]

Interestingly, one of the drafts for 'In Thy Image' features a light cruiser, the Aswan, facing down the intruder before the Enterprise is even launched.

It might have been dramatically interesting had Commodore Kirk been given command of both ships, and the Enterprise been the only one to survive and make it inside the cloud.