Acupuncture--pros and cons
- Thread starter propita
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The last quality research I read suggests that there is a therapeutic benefit to acupuncture, though it is not due to the reasons the acupuncturists claim, and there is no scientific mechanism for how it could treat disease, allergy, or any number of other ailments its devotees claim it treats. The whole practice is based in magical thinking, but the actual insertion of needles into the muscles has been shown to have effect.
In one of the most well-designed studies on the efficacy of acupuncture I've read to date, one group was given "real" acupuncture by acupuncturists who were trained in and believed in all the magical stuff, once group was given fake acupuncture, the insertion of needles into random points as apposed to chi points, and another two groups were given either real or sham acupuncture, but with the needle encased in a device that concealed whether or not it actually penetrated, so neither the subject, not the acupuncturist knew whether or not the needle was being inserted -- this effectively blinded the trial. They found that it does not matter where the needles are inserted, but that there is an effect when comparing needles actually being inserted to the patient just thinking needles are being inserted, so it's not just the placebo affect. It could be the same thing that's going on when you bang your elbow and automatically rub it, or when you scratch an itch; adding a new type of sensory input can ease pain.
The evidence shows that the majority of the effect of acupuncture is a combination of placebo effect with the actual therapeutic benefits of the other services provided (dark relaxing atmosphere, massage, excellent bedside manner, etc.).
All the stuff about chi and energy flows and blockages is just make-believe, though.
I heard a neurologist once relate an experience he had in China. He was invited to watch a surgery being performed with the patient given only acupuncture as anesthesia. He said that the patient kept repeating a single word over and over, very quietly. He finally asked his translator what the patient was saying, only to be told he was moaning, "Pain...pain...pain." At which point the neurologist pointed this out to the surgeon, who then yelled at the patient to shut up. And he did.
In one of the most well-designed studies on the efficacy of acupuncture I've read to date, one group was given "real" acupuncture by acupuncturists who were trained in and believed in all the magical stuff, once group was given fake acupuncture, the insertion of needles into random points as apposed to chi points, and another two groups were given either real or sham acupuncture, but with the needle encased in a device that concealed whether or not it actually penetrated, so neither the subject, not the acupuncturist knew whether or not the needle was being inserted -- this effectively blinded the trial. They found that it does not matter where the needles are inserted, but that there is an effect when comparing needles actually being inserted to the patient just thinking needles are being inserted, so it's not just the placebo affect. It could be the same thing that's going on when you bang your elbow and automatically rub it, or when you scratch an itch; adding a new type of sensory input can ease pain.
The evidence shows that the majority of the effect of acupuncture is a combination of placebo effect with the actual therapeutic benefits of the other services provided (dark relaxing atmosphere, massage, excellent bedside manner, etc.).
All the stuff about chi and energy flows and blockages is just make-believe, though.
I heard a neurologist once relate an experience he had in China. He was invited to watch a surgery being performed with the patient given only acupuncture as anesthesia. He said that the patient kept repeating a single word over and over, very quietly. He finally asked his translator what the patient was saying, only to be told he was moaning, "Pain...pain...pain." At which point the neurologist pointed this out to the surgeon, who then yelled at the patient to shut up. And he did.
I had acupuncture once. All it did was make my whole body hurt for a day.
That happened with me and a “therapeutic massage” from those Chinese masseurs. Little ladies freaked out when started on my shoulders...a lot of conferring in Chinese and they tell me, ”worst we see.” Big biker dude? No problem. Little 5’ 1” me? Five minutes after they were done, huffing and puffing from effort, and the muscles were tight again. They were walking on my back and it made no difference. Didn’t hurt either, and they couldn’t believe I wasn’t in pain because it was taking them so much effort. The last massage caused bruises. That was it for me.
That’s what I was wondering about acupuncture...whether could it help muscles to relax.
That’s what I was wondering about acupuncture...whether could it help muscles to relax.
A
Amaris
Guest
My muscles are damn near impossible to manipulate due to high stress. I pity any massage therapist who ends up touching my shoulders. 
^I'd recommend dilaudid.
Had that years ago when I got pancreatitis at 11 yo; a kicked soccer ball got me in the gut and pushed my pancreas against my spine, damaging it. It took over a week, but it healed from the trauma. But it was a VERY painful week.
Dilaudid did nothing for the pain of pancreatitis.
When I used to have a bit of alcohol, enough to get a light buzz, my muscles would relax a bit. Omg! It was painful! Not their normal state and they seemed to resent it. As the buzz dropped and the muscles re-tensed, the pain eased. Pathetic!
Dilaudid did nothing for the pain of pancreatitis.
When I used to have a bit of alcohol, enough to get a light buzz, my muscles would relax a bit. Omg! It was painful! Not their normal state and they seemed to resent it. As the buzz dropped and the muscles re-tensed, the pain eased. Pathetic!
^Then dilaudid for J and chronic alcoholism for you!
See, the internet is a great place to get medical advice!
See, the internet is a great place to get medical advice!
A
Amaris
Guest
I'll join the Dilaudid team. It got me through the post-surgery pain beautifully.
I have to admit, I'm surprised that no one has commented on the OP's pointed question. (Sorry, Propita, just needling you a bit.)
I have to admit, I'm surprised that no one has commented on the OP's pointed question. (Sorry, Propita, just needling you a bit.)
I'll join the Dilaudid team. It got me through the post-surgery pain beautifully.
I have to admit, I'm surprised that no one has commented on the OP's pointed question. (Sorry, Propita, just needling you a bit.)
I did! I quickly pointed that the scientific evidence easily pokes holes in the nonsensical "theory" behind acupuncture, and implied that I think the pricks who practice it are either self-deluded or frauds -- you don't have to be especially sharp to see that!
^Nicely done, TSQ. I can't even think of a good response. Kind of makes me feel like a pinhead.
^The tendency towards puns is one of the things I find most enduring about this place. That, and people who request "start-up advice" when purchasing their first cat. 
^The tendency towards puns is one of the things I find most enduring about this place. That, and people who request "start-up advice" when purchasing their first cat.
Yup! Love the puns and the kitty start-up advice thread. Best thread title ever.
^Ha. I meant to write "endearing" there. but "enduring" works too!
^Some people are really good at it. I've been on pins and needles, waiting for Mr. Laser Beam to sew up in this thread.
Apologies for bringing the thread back on track 
, but I had acupuncture about 10 years ago to ease chronic sinus headaches. It was done by my chiropractor, and it helped. Don't know exactly why, but I'd guess it's because at the time I had 3 very young children and my youngest was in the throes of what was then severe autism. Simply being by myself in a quiet room and lying down with my eyes closed for 20 minutes or so was exactly what I needed, with or without a dozen needles sticking out of my face.
I'm leaving this thread now, because I hate puns as much as I hate mimes.
, but I had acupuncture about 10 years ago to ease chronic sinus headaches. It was done by my chiropractor, and it helped. Don't know exactly why, but I'd guess it's because at the time I had 3 very young children and my youngest was in the throes of what was then severe autism. Simply being by myself in a quiet room and lying down with my eyes closed for 20 minutes or so was exactly what I needed, with or without a dozen needles sticking out of my face.I'm leaving this thread now, because I hate puns as much as I hate mimes.
