Action hero Picard

[Makarov]

I have to say I don't agree with the general feeling that Picard shouldn't be in action scenes.

You've got a guy whose hobby is violent detective novels on the holodeck, a guy who ran track and other sports at the academy. And someone who took on a bunch of guys when he got stabbed through the heart.

So where does this idea come from that he's just an old man that can't fight? I'm not saying he should be getting in fights all the time but I think saying "kirk = fighter, picard = diplomat" is a disservice to both characters.

 

[Timewalker]

Not all action heroes have to be like Schwarzenegger. Patrick Stewart did an adequate job.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Picard tried to settle disputes with talk first, but was always willing and able to back it up with force if necessary--whether onboard a ship or in person (he wouldn't have been assigned Captain of the E-D if he wasn't up to the job).

 

[JD5000]

Captain Picard has killed WAY more people than Chuck Norris. At least on screen. I wouldn't mess with him.

 

[Tosk]

So where does this idea come from that he's just an old man that can't fight?

Malcolm McDowell kicked his ass twice in a row. Even two on one, he still kicked his ass.

 

[desfem79]

From what I read/heard, Sir Stewart requested it because he felt it was needed for Picard to grow as a character. and IMO it makes sense, the CO of a ship has to be hands on when required, not just monitor the away team from the bridge, say "make it so", or "engage".

Starship Mine and Captain's Holiday are two of my favourite TNG eps anyhow. And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..

 

[Tosk]

And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..

I dunno man, I find Perfect Mate to be pretty stinky.

 

[JarodRussell]

People are like "Picard got his ass kicked by Soran, how come he is an action hero in First Contact and Insurrection"? Yeah well, maybe he learned his lesson between those films?
And then he never got into a fist fight in FC or INS.

 

[MikeH92467]

From what I read/heard, Sir Stewart requested it because he felt it was needed for Picard to grow as a character. and IMO it makes sense, the CO of a ship has to be hands on when required, not just monitor the away team from the bridge, say "make it so", or "engage".

Starship Mine and Captain's Holiday are two of my favourite TNG eps anyhow. And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..

Gene Roddenberry modeled his captains after Horatio Hornblower. Kirk was more action-oriented, Picard more cerebral, but they both had much of Hornblower in them. They were the unquestioned leaders of their ships without any intimidation other than the intimidation generated by such outstanding careers, they could be diplomatic when called for and keep their cool in combat, they could slam down a drink when called and if need be could throw a good punch. (Neither of them won every fight) Of course, they were also gallant and attractive to the ladies. Some elements were stronger than others, but they were all there. I mean Picard had a brilliant battlefield maneuver named after him! While Kirk was able to talk computers to death at least three times that I recall...

 

[Lance]

He's a strange duck, this Jean Luc Picard character. Definitely a man of many and eclectic interests. A man who is just as happy to be digging around in the ground on some dusty planet looking for old clay pots, as he is to be indulging in pulpy 1930s detective fiction.

 

[Shat Happens]

It's a hard sell. He should have ordered someone more fit to do those muscle jobs. Like Riker, a character that was created exactly for that, or Worf, the one the audience acclaimed.

 

[jimbotron]

I didn't like the switch to Action Picard, though I understand it was a business decision that probably needed to happen.

The enlightened archaeologist diplomat doesn't work in a movie. Riker was designed to be the "Kirk" character, as in the one beaming down, getting into fights, and hooking up with the ladies. However, by the time the movies rolled around, everyone but Picard and Data had become marginalized, so Picard had to become more Kirk-like. Plus Stewart had much more clout and wanted more fun roles.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

I must admit I'm quite baffled by the whole debate over 'Erudite Picard' versus 'Action Picard.' I've always seen both those facets combining to create the whole. With Picard, TNG canon has given us a rich, multi-faceted character; one who reads ancient Greek and Latin classics and Shakespeare as well as hard-boiled detective novels. He plays the flute as well as rides horses, fences, and does a little rock climbing. He drinks tea as well as Aldebaran whiskey. He is a diplomat who appears to have a certain degree of special ops training. Like the TOS episode "The Enemy Within" did with Kirk's character, TNG's episode "Tapestry" does a beautiful job of showing that it takes both the erudite and well as the "Hell bent for leather" ensign who was stabbed through the heart in a barroom brawl facets to make Picard the flagship captain. Picard is the erudite who can rise to the role of action hero when the situation requires.

As far as being the 'muscle,' how many of you guys are built like this?

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[Cyke101]

I suppose I wouldn't have as big a problem with Action Picard had he stormed the Scimitar with a bunch of red shirts, or at least a semi-capable Away Team. As it is, he singlehandedly defeated a bridge full of soldiers who managed to kill the Romulan Senate.

There's room for an Action Picard, don't get me wrong. The limits set to him vs. the Borg Queen were at least story based, and all he did was stall (therefore, using his wits) and swung on a cable. But the limitations in Nemesis just felt so convenient -- only one person can beam over, only one person can beam back, he *has8 to fight his clone, et all. As well, if one movie had an Action Picard and another movie had Picard using his wits and diplomacy to try and solve a cosmic mystery (which was more his cup of tea in TNG), then there'd be a bit of balance.

 

[Lance]

There's room for an Action Picard, don't get me wrong. The limits set to him vs. the Borg Queen were at least story based, and all he did was stall (therefore, using his wits) and swung on a cable. But the limitations in Nemesis just felt so convenient -- only one person can beam over, only one person can beam back, he *has* to fight his clone, et all. As well, if one movie had an Action Picard and another movie had Picard using his wits and diplomacy to try and solve a cosmic mystery (which was more his cup of tea in TNG), then there'd be a bit of balance.

That's the thing that is lacking: the variety of the character. I mean, Action Picard shown up on TV from time to time as well (most notably in "Starship Mine"), but it was merely one part of a much more fully rounded character. We didn't see him beating up on the bad guys EVERY single week for 26 weeks in a row.

By contrast, in the TNG movies, that 'action movie' guy shows up for three movies in a row, so by NEMESIS we're all just like: "Is he compensating for something? What's the deal here?".

 

[Khan444]

Well, there are several issues.
1. Picard was always more of a diplomat who tried to talk his way out of situations and only resorted to force as a very last resort. Maybe that was the intention in the films, but if so then it was poorly executed.
2. There are already TWO characters on the Enterprise who fit the "action hero" model better than Picard, Riker and Worf. If Nemesis had been written competently, then instead of Picard going to duel Shinzon for some vague "I need to do it myself" reason, it should have been Worf. You know, the experienced Klingon warrior who loves to fight and is perfectly willing to die in battle if necessary.
3. Seeing a 60+ year old man with a artificial heart doing Rambo-style action scenes just didn't look right, especially with Riker and Worf around.
4. It just wasn't as interesting as his portrayal in the TV show.
5. They essentially turned him into Kirk, when he was specifically designed to be different from Kirk.

 

[Timewalker]

From what I read/heard, Sir Stewart requested it because he felt it was needed for Picard to grow as a character. and IMO it makes sense, the CO of a ship has to be hands on when required, not just monitor the away team from the bridge, say "make it so", or "engage".

Starship Mine and Captain's Holiday are two of my favourite TNG eps anyhow. And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..

Just a reminder that when referring to someone who has been knighted, it's "Sir (first name)." So in this case, it's "Sir Patrick," not "Sir Stewart."

I must admit I'm quite baffled by the whole debate over 'Erudite Picard' versus 'Action Picard.' I've always seen both those facets combining to create the whole. With Picard, TNG canon has given us a rich, multi-faceted character; one who reads ancient Greek and Latin classics and Shakespeare as well as hard-boiled detective novels. He plays the flute as well as rides horses, fences, and does a little rock climbing. He drinks tea as well as Aldebaran whiskey. He is a diplomat who appears to have a certain degree of special ops training. Like the TOS episode "The Enemy Within" did with Kirk's character, TNG's episode "Tapestry" does a beautiful job of showing that it takes both the erudite and well as the "Hell bent for leather" ensign who was stabbed through the heart in a barroom brawl facets to make Picard the flagship captain. Picard is the erudite who can rise to the role of action hero when the situation requires.

As far as being the 'muscle,' how many of you guys are built like this?

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

Jean-Luc Picard is a true Renaissance man in every sense that counts. He's accomplished in the arts and sciences, he's highly literate, he's athletic, he's equally at home in any social setting from the gutter to the highest echelons, he's a military man and a diplomat, he's multilingual (Federation Standard/English, French, and at least some Klingon), he's a fighter and a lover, and not afraid to lead by example.

And his portrayer, Patrick Stewart, looks damn fine in a short Roman tunic!

 

[Lance]

Well, there are several issues.
1. Picard was always more of a diplomat who tried to talk his way out of situations and only resorted to force as a very last resort. Maybe that was the intention in the films, but if so then it was poorly executed.
2. There are already TWO characters on the Enterprise who fit the "action hero" model better than Picard, Riker and Worf. If Nemesis had been written competently, then instead of Picard going to duel Shinzon for some vague "I need to do it myself" reason, it should have been Worf. You know, the experienced Klingon warrior who loves to fight and is perfectly willing to die in battle if necessary.
3. Seeing a 60+ year old man with a artificial heart doing Rambo-style action scenes just didn't look right, especially with Riker and Worf around.
4. It just wasn't as interesting as his portrayal in the TV show.
5. They essentially turned him into Kirk, when he was specifically designed to be different from Kirk.

To be far on NEMESIS, the movie does give a reasonable explanation for why Riker doesn't go down there to fight Shinzon: he's got his *own* 'revenge' story, and he takes on the Viceroy. Admittedly it's such a damp squib it's easy to see why people forget it, but still, script writer John Logan had his bases covered on that one.

Worf, though? Not so much. I'll give you that.

INSURRECTION should really have been Picard's big chance to not be an action hero for a change. The script was weighed more towards philosophical debate anyway, and that one should have ended with Picard reasoning with Ru'afo, and convincing him with words to put down his arms, and take up residency with his old people once more.

Instead, we got yet another scene of Picard fighting a guy like he's Bruce Willis or something, and then leaving Ru'afo to burn to death while he gets beamed safely away.

But then, I think fans would still kvetch on the internet about how 'Picard talking to a guy is a weak ending for a movie'. So what could they do? They would be damned if they did, and they would be damned if they didn't.

 

[JarodRussell]

Picard already reasoned Rua'fos brother with words. But Ruafo simply couldn't be reasoned with. So where's the problem?

 

[Tosk]

The problem isn't Picard getting in on the action...the problem is the structure they keep forcing on the Trek movies. Trek movies are at their best when they are not trying so hard to be action movies. Yes yes, in my opinion.