About Kira Nerys

[STEPhon IT]

He's fully aware of this, but for anyone to claim Kira didn't have the expertise or criteria to command the Defiant while Sisko and Worf had is under estimating how resourceful and highly intelligent she was. Sisko expressed the Defiant was a working experiment and the crew needed to progress with it, Worf himself was caught off guard being inside a Federation ship equipped with a stealth device. For everyone it was new ground, but Kira had more knowledge of that vessel before Worf came on board the station.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

He's fully aware of this, but for anyone to claim Kira didn't have the expertise or criteria to command the Defiant while Sisko and Worf had is under estimating how resourceful and highly intelligent she was. Sisko expressed the Defiant was a working experiment and the crew needed to progress with it, Worf himself was caught off guard being inside a Federation ship equipped with a stealth device. For everyone it was new ground, but Kira had more knowledge of that vessel before Worf came on board the station.

Thanks buddy

An argument could also be made for what authority Sisko had to give Kira orders on DS9? She wasn't part of Starfleet and the station was Bajoran, why should she (or any of the Bajoran militia or security personnel) follow the orders of a human Commander/Captain?

 

[Agent Grayson]

I think the non-aggression pact went up in smoke once the fleet re-took DS9.
They’ve been open allies ever since.

I think it's clear the Bajoran Republic only signed the non-aggression pact under duress and that upon the return of the Federation to the Bajor system, the Bajoran government rescinded its agreement and became one of the Allied powers alongside the Federation and Klingon Empire (and, later, the Romulan Star Empire).

Ah, okay. I'm on my first watch-through of DS9 and am only partway through the Dominion War, so this may become more evident as I go.

 

[Tosk]

An argument could also be made for what authority Sisko had to give Kira orders on DS9? She wasn't part of Starfleet and the station was Bajoran, why should she (or any of the Bajoran militia or security personnel) follow the orders of a human Commander/Captain?

The Bajoran provisional government specifically asked Starfleet to be there, to administrate the station.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

The Bajoran provisional government specifically asked Starfleet to be there, to administrate the station.

Which is kinda my point. Before such a working arrangement could be reached with both sides agreeing for their personnel to work together and respect their structures and chain of command, so whether its Bajoran property or a Starfleet asset then the rules would apply.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

What experience did Sisko or Worf have of commanding a warship (a type of vessel that Starfleet didn't have before the Defiant)? Sisko was involved with the development of the ship though given he was thinking about resigning from Starfleet at the time after Wolf 359 then he hadn't seen himself commanding the ship, whilst Worf was second choice of security chief on a luxury cruise ship. Even when Worf transfers to command he's not shown undertaking any additional training or classes for the new role.

I think it's fair to say anyone introduced to us as a CO or XO has undergone advanced training, both for the relevant technology and strategy. The only problem might be Picard, who was promoted because he did a good job.

If we are going to accept that Worf and Dax could be the CO or XO, we have to assume that off camera they were advancing their training. That given, Kira could well have been doing the same, logging into virtual classes after her evening hasperat.

 

[at Quark's]

Thanks buddy

An argument could also be made for what authority Sisko had to give Kira orders on DS9? She wasn't part of Starfleet and the station was Bajoran, why should she (or any of the Bajoran militia or security personnel) follow the orders of a human Commander/Captain?

Because that would presumably have been agreed upon by the Bajoran provisional government and the Federation before Sisko came ('You want us to establish a Starfleet presence on your station for your protection against the Cardassians, and receive aid? That's fine, these are our conditions: the station stays yours, so you can throw us out if you feel this deal isn't working out, BUT until that happens, we'll have to insist that day-to-day command of the space station has to lie with the starfleet commander we're sending there. You can send a 2nd in command who can report back to you for checks and balances.' Etc., etc.)

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Sisko requested a Bajoran national as his first officer, it made sense to him then and it still did when he reported aboard.

 

[Tosk]

Which is kinda my point. Before such a working arrangement could be reached with both sides agreeing for their personnel to work together and respect their structures and chain of command, so whether its Bajoran property or a Starfleet asset then the rules would apply.

I apologize, but I'm completely spacing on the point you're making. Bajor asked Starfleet to administer the station. Sisko requested a Bajoran for his second officer. They gave him one. That is the authority Sisko had to give Kira orders on DS9 that you asked about.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I apologize, but I'm completely spacing on the point you're making. Bajor asked Starfleet to administer the station. Sisko requested a Bajoran for his second officer. They gave him one. That is the authority Sisko had to give Kira orders on DS9 that you asked about.

Which then gives Kira authority and command over all other Starfleet personnel that isn't Sisko, including aboard any Starfleet vessel assigned to the station (admittedly this was just runabouts at the beginning, they never knew they'd need something with more oomph).

 

[Sci]

In real life, the command structures of military bases jointly operated by the armed forces of multiple sovereign states, are worked out on the basis of treaties or other international agreements negotiated in advance by the relevant sovereign states. So, for instance, it is by international agreement that the commanding officer of the North American Aerospace Defense Command will always be a United States Armed Forces four-star general or admiral, and that the deputy commander will always be a Royal Canadian Air Force lieutenant general. Detachments of both the United States Air Force and the Royal Canadian Air Force that have been seconded to NORAD are bound to obey orders from NORAD no matter which country they're from, and NORAD's commanders are bound to take orders from their respective governments. Thus we had a United States Air Force fighter plane obeying an order from the Prime Minister of Canada to shoot down an object entering Canadian airspace a few months ago -- obviously normally the Prime Minister of Canada has no authority to issue an order to a USAF pilot, but that pilot had been seconded to NORAD and thus had to obey the Prime Minister's orders.

So it is, presumably, with Starbase Deep Space 9: The Federation and the Bajoran Republic have a diplomatic agreement on a common command framework to which officers of both the Federation Starfleet and Bajoran Militia have been seconded. The commanding officer of Starbase Deep Space 9 must obey orders from the Federation, but they also must obey orders from the First Minister of the Bajoran Republic (e.g., Sisko claiming Bajoran rather than Federation sovereignty over the Wormhole).

 

[Poltargyst]

This has me wondering now why the Federation was allowed to stay on DS9 after Bajor entered into the non-aggression pact.

 

[Tosk]

This has me wondering now why the Federation was allowed to stay on DS9 after Bajor entered into the non-aggression pact.

(Putting aside the six episodes where Starfleet did leave the station) Because it's a non-aggression pact. Having Starfleet administrate the station is not aggression. If it had been a neutrality pact, then there might have been a problem.

 

[somebuddyX]

I heard from Quark she was doing night courses at Deep Space Nine Community College in starship navigation, command and tech drawing.

 

[kkt]

if Nog can do online piloting simulations to prepare himself for Starfleet Academy, why can't Kira do them to prepare herself for piloting the Defiant instead of the sublight ships held together with string and chewing gum that the Resistance used?

 

[ReddishAlert]

One would assume given the broad range of skills that they all have that they spend a lot of time in training even once they have received a posting. I mean, you would think they all must have minimum training for flight hours, marksmanship, basic engineering etc. plus whatever skills they want to add.

Plus it’s Starfleet so they probably have to also attend classes for Botany and Fine Arts during the week

 

[Poltargyst]

(Putting aside the six episodes where Starfleet did leave the station) Because it's a non-aggression pact. Having Starfleet administrate the station is not aggression. If it had been a neutrality pact, then there might have been a problem.

They only left the station because there was a big enemy force about to conquer them, but I accept your explanation.

 

[Sci]

(Putting aside the six episodes where Starfleet did leave the station) Because it's a non-aggression pact. Having Starfleet administrate the station is not aggression. If it had been a neutrality pact, then there might have been a problem.

I think a better explanation is that once the Federation was able to protect the Bajoran system from Dominion encroachment, the Bajoran Republic withdrew from its nonaggression pact and formally allied with the Federation and Klingon Empire. They probably also formally declared war upon the Dominion so as to allow Bajoran Militia officers to participate in Allied offenses (i.e., to allow Kira to serve aboard the Defiant during battle).

 

[Farscape One]

I've got an even better explanation.

After Sisko convinced the Prophets to do whatever they did to the 2,800 Dominion ships, the Bajorans decided to throw the non-aggression pact in the waste extraction system and side with the Federation.

Something as major as what happened there was certainly a bigger convincing statement than a Federation/Klingon fleet always being at DS9. At least, to the Bajorans.

 

[at Quark's]

If the Sisko story of how he convinced the Prophets to deal with those ships became public (i.e. most Bajorans learned about it) then Weyoun would, too, sooner or later (they do have a good intelligence network, after all). And even after dismissing it as a religion-inspired myth, he still would have been at a loss to explain the disappearance of those 2,800 ships.

I wonder whether that wouldn't have planted a seed of doubt in his heart about the 'godhood' of the Founders (at least when compared to the might of the Prophets)?