A Starbase NCO in "Court Martial"?

[M'Sharak]

Wouldn't the people in the wrap around jumpsuits be enlisted? Like Chief Kyle? I think he was a chief, I might have remembered wrong.

Kyle was a lieutenant. He was addressed as such by Spock in "Who Mourns For Adonais?", suggesting that the wraparound jumpsuits are just work coveralls that could be worn by both officers and enlisted alike.

Agreed. In fact, doesn't Uhura wear such a jumpsuit in an early episode when she's working on her console?

No, that was more of a smock, worn over her regular duty uniform.

Screencap (more here)

 

[J.T.B.]

It seems a little sloppy to me that these things weren't clearer and more obvious; at least by TNG we had the pip system in place that somewhat mirrored the ranks of our present-day navies.

TNG didn't have it much more together than TOS. They had the main shipboard officer ranks worked out, but didn't have anything for enlisted, either, though they used one black pip for O'Brien later on. In one episode O'Brien was identified as a CPO while wearing lieutenant pips. They went through a few different systems for admirals and I'm not sure they ever worked out the details for them.

 

[Wingsley]

^ This is why I brought up the Kyle/Cowl-O'Brien parallel.

There were some stumbles and goofs; there were inconsistencies. Some episodes of TOS clearly identify Kyle as a lieutenant. Others seem to leave wiggle room. And John Winston's abrupt appearance at the helm in "The Immunity Syndrome" while wearing command gold, bracketed by appearances in other episodes before and after showing him as the Transporter operator in red, and William Shatner's seemingly deliberate mispronunciation of Kyle's name ("Cowl" or "Cowell") seem to strongly suggest Winston is playing an entirely different character. (Even Winston's hairstyle and mannerisms change.)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Now I'm picturing Winston in a T-shirt saying "Utter rubbish".

 

[drt]

The first time i saw the episode where Worf's father referred to O'Brien as a NCO, i though that he was wrong/confused and that O'Brien was just humoring an old man. But then i think the writers fell in love with making O'Brien more of a blue collar working man type of charac

Although i had a thought, maybe the higher ratio of officers to enlisted we see in Star Trek is more of a reflection of the shows being largely based on starships. I could see that perhaps starships are staffed primarily by officers plus a few outstanding enlisted personnel, while the starbases and ground facilities have a ratio closer to what we'd expect.

 

[Push The Button]

Kyle was a lieutenant. He was addressed as such by Spock in "Who Mourns For Adonais?", suggesting that the wraparound jumpsuits are just work coveralls that could be worn by both officers and enlisted alike.

Agreed. In fact, doesn't Uhura wear such a jumpsuit in an early episode when she's working on her console?

No, that was more of a smock, worn over her regular duty uniform.

Screencap (more here)

I love this scene, from the POV inside the communications station. And a few encouraging words from Spock can make your day.

 

[trekshark]

It seems a little sloppy to me that these things weren't clearer and more obvious; at least by TNG we had the pip system in place that somewhat mirrored the ranks of our present-day navies.

TNG didn't have it much more together than TOS. They had the main shipboard officer ranks worked out, but didn't have anything for enlisted, either, though they used one black pip for O'Brien later on. In one episode O'Brien was identified as a CPO while wearing lieutenant pips. They went through a few different systems for admirals and I'm not sure they ever worked out the details for them.

early TNG even called O'Brien a lieutenant at least once. I'm glad they ended up formally making him a CPO and giving him that unique rank pip in DS9. wish they had fleshed out other enlisted ranks/positions a bit more than they did

 

[Timo]

early TNG even called O'Brien a lieutenant at least once.

Umm, not really. In "Where Silence Has Lease", Riker is in the transporter room with Worf and O'Brien. Riker and Worf are of course the ones beaming over, and they discuss tactics. Worf suggests beaming to the aft station of the bridge that they are going to visit, and Riker says "Agreed. Aft station, Lieutenant". Beaming then commences.

So we don't have to read it as Riker addressing O'Brien as "Lieutenant", considering that Worf certainly is a Lieutenant!

I'm not trying to argue what the writers intended by that line. I'm just saying that our only piece of dialogue evidence suggesting that O'Brien would be a Lieutenant is ambiguous.

Timo Saloniemi