A Star trek CGI series

[RobertScorpio]

check out this
3D CGI short film [Length 7:47]
http://www.3dm3.com/video/2009/06/09/oceansize/

Oceansize is a short 3D movie made by 4 students of Supinfocom Arles in 2008

The camera moves are really cool. Great lighting and sets.
The human character animation is lacking though. Some nice atmospheric effects with lighting.
It is also pretty simple sound design. mostly music and only some sound effects.


Recently viewed part of an episode from Star Wars: The Clone Wars TV show and it really looks good too with the exception of the character animation. The sets & locations, ships, props are really top notch. The lighting was great too on the characters (even thought the character's stylized animation leaves a lot to be desired)

So how much different are these two animations then? Both suffer from bad character animations. SW:The Clone Wars spent between $1-2 million per episode including the orchestral music, voice acting, sound work. Oceansize was made by 4 students. You can guess how low a budget they had...
How do you feel about a Star Trek series being CGI animated like these two?

Star Wars: The Old Republic trailer cost a lot to make and it's only 4 minutes. That level of quality would cost too much to make a TV series. Possibly a TV movie would be doable though... The sets & CG character models can be reused.

I'm all for it. But it really comes down to writing. The best CGI can't make up for bad writing.

As for the CLONE WARS? I totally agree. I can't stand the characters, but the vocal work is pretty good. The dude doing Obi Wan has his voice down good!! Sounds just like McGregor. The FX (space fighting and ships and all that) are pretty damn good. Imagine that for a TREK CGI? Yeah...go for it.

Rob

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Star trek CGI series - backgrounds/ ship interiors

zach21uk's game has some great CG models that would be adequate for a CGI series ship interior backgrounds. They need a little atmospheric effects interaction with lighting but they look good.
check out the these screenshots:
Sovereign Class Interior
Defiant Engineering
Nebula Bridge

since a show could essentially use an engine and CG model like this for backgrounds and other software for the characters it is possible if rendered at high quality 1080p.

It has it's own thread here.

 

[O'Dib]

I would love to see any show attempt to employ "A Scanner Darkly" methods. It allows for actual actors to look cartoonized, and interact with CG sets and characters much more seamlessly.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

I would love to see any show attempt to employ "A Scanner Darkly" methods.

Very interesting idea O'Dib.
I thought about it too last month but using live-action.

The downside is you would have to have the actors in basic costumes, pay the actors for screentime (vs. just narration), do all the rotoscoping work which is VERY time consuming as well as the cinematographer has to light it with some lighting for mood as the rotoscopers are basically emulating what they see.

It would be less work to do reference video with actors doing the narration.
The video sped up the animation processes of the facial movements. No costumes needed at all and no makeup.
Image Metrics is a animation company that uses mo-cap. and does cinematics for videogames. They used this technique for the God of War III videogame.
source: Post Magazine, May 2009 , page 26.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

this old thread is kind of interesting and just stumbled across it.

Real Life Looking CGI Trek
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=38235

 

[O'Dib]

The downside is you would have to have the actors in basic costumes, pay the actors for screentime (vs. just narration), do all the rotoscoping work which is VERY time consuming as well as the cinematographer has to light it with some lighting for mood as the rotoscopers are basically emulating what they see.

Right, I did some research myself AFTER posting the idea. I thought rotoscoping was an effect you can achieve by running footage through a computer filter, no animators involved. It's probably possible, but not as good looking.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

example of location in CGI

another great example of a location/world envisioned with CGI.

2014 Commonwealth Games village
42 second HD video for
2014 Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

full size screengrabs with different lighting adjustment

I took the screengrabs from the NX-01 mod for 'Star Trek Elite Force' PC game.
from here & added some grain and darkened the lighting to show it a little more filmic. They can look pretty good.

 

[BrownShatner]

Star Trek Elite Force is an older game based on the Quake 3 engine. So that doesn't even reflect what can be done with modern video game technology, much less production-quality CGI.

My problem with the CGI approach is might come-off as more of a low-budget Saturday Morning type show. It's hard to imagine it being used as a 'prime-time' production.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

the CGI approach is might come-off as more of a low-budget Saturday Morning type show. It's hard to imagine it being used as a 'prime-time' production.

I only used what I found that was adequate for a visual example. While it was not 1080p high definition...
BrownShatner check out these two posts:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3044371&postcount=3
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3080442&postcount=20

Lucasanimation spent 1-2 million on The Clone Wars series per 22 minute episode they say.I doubt Paramount/CBS is willing to spend that much but based on the examples on this thread it can look good for less.
If we can get over the facial animation being so realistic (spending the time & $) this medium is adquate for Trek storytelling broadcast in HD or Blu-ray.

and this CG model
http://images116.fotki.com/v713/filemxLq/9b3b7/2/1293622/7699857/eeringcgieliteforce25350_1copy.jpg
looks pretty close to a photo from the set
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200307/gal-ent-main-engineering-02/320x240.jpg

 

[jefferiestubes8]

Star trek CGI TV series

If Star Wars can do this with a 22 minute episodes why not Star Trek? Make it 43 minutes and have more scenes like a regular Trek TV episode.

See the new trailer for season 2 of The Clone Wars.
http://www.starwars.com/video/view/000841.html

TrekBBS thread
SOURCE

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Personally, I like live action Trek much better. No matter how beautiful the scenery or characters are; I simply can't get in to it. Just look at Beowulf, for example; while some others liked it, I really couldn't get into it; the people weren't real enough to care.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The Clone Wars has managed to transform 3D animation from an art into something like a social disease.

 

[GhostFaceSaint]

A new CG show could be the way CBS could go, do it very alien too, let the imagination of the writers go wild, but I also don't see anything wrong with CBS also doing a show that kids could watch, do a good family oriented Trek in the tradition of the better family films which have different elements for both the young and mature to appreciate and just have fun with it.

Star Trek needs to expand to be more successful, maybe even becoming as successful as Star Wars finally but without losing any of its sophistication, not going the latest Star Wars approach on cartoon network, but something with a lot of passion, vision, and thought.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

I also don't see anything wrong with CBS also doing a show that kids could watch, do a good family oriented Trek in the tradition of the better family films which have different elements for both the young and mature to appreciate and just have fun with it.

Star Trek XI was made to get a wider audience. The PG-13 (which people say is the new PG) rating is to get kids aged 9-12 in the group as fans.

Star Trek needs to expand .... but without losing any of its sophistication, not going the latest Star Wars approach on cartoon network

GhostFaceSaint you gotta pick one. Either you want a kid-friendly animiated series or you want it aimed at age 18 and up with serious thinking and science concepts going on all within 22 minutes.

If you want the animiated series aimed at kids solely then check this out:
Star Trek Kids Cartoon
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=96540
otherwise you can't have it both ways.

I posted The Clone Wars tv series season 2 trailer as it has gone darker than season 1 and perhaps is trying for an older audience. I don't think Star Trek can do the same once they start down the animated path with one series.

I want TV14 rated Star Trek. Not just for the violence but for the adult-related (not sexual) themes that are complex.

 

[AviTrek]

I doubt non-sexual, non-violent themes would generate a TV14 rating. The censors just don't care about much beyond sex, language, and violence.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

motion capture and Trek

Will James Cameron's Avatar change things for Trek TV in 2012-2014? As far as motion capture being used for CGI will it become feasible for a 13-episode series to use this?
I'm not talking 3-D with the glasses I'm only talking about using motion capture on a tv show for a 100% CGI series.


Resident Evil: Degeneration MoCap 2 min. video
already did it for a CGI feature film released in 2008.

its most elaborate work in the burgeoning field has come on James Cameron's long-gestating 3D action fantasy "Avatar," already touted among genre fanboys as a movie likely to alter the public's perceptions about motion capture in particular and filmmaking in general.

Steven Spielberg had just wrapped six weeks of motion-capture work on his passion project "The Adventures of Tintin: Secret of the Unicorn." Offering a toast to the production crew hired for the highly specialized shoots, the director raised a champagne glass and noted they had helped him squeeze in the most setups in the fewest days of any production in which he had been involved.

July 15, 2009
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ia13021641b2079d289fc3dc3a2865694

There's a lot of talk about Avatar changing things and I'm wondering how Trek may be affected in this way. Would this technology make it actually economically possible for a 13-episode series? a 22-episode series?
If Steven Spielberg and James Cameron can use it then why not a Trek TV director?

the most setups in the fewest days of any production in which he had been involved.

Is pretty amazing for a guy like Spielberg but then again who knows how much time they will spend on lighting, atmospheric effects, and camera movement in post production...

 

[Mysterion]

Yes, this is clearly the way to go for a TV series. Any era, any characters, as many aliens as you want, sets as big and as imaginative as you want, etc.

With the right voice casting, you could do any of the established characters with no problem. New characters would be limited by imagination alone.

 

[AviTrek]

Re: motion capture and Trek

Will James Cameron's Avatar change things for Trek TV in 2012-2014? As far as motion capture being used for CGI will it become feasible for a 13-episode series to use this?
I'm not talking 3-D with the glasses I'm only talking about using motion capture on a tv show for a 100% CGI series.


Resident Evil: Degeneration MoCap 2 min. video
already did it for a CGI feature film released in 2008.

its most elaborate work in the burgeoning field has come on James Cameron's long-gestating 3D action fantasy "Avatar," already touted among genre fanboys as a movie likely to alter the public's perceptions about motion capture in particular and filmmaking in general.

Steven Spielberg had just wrapped six weeks of motion-capture work on his passion project "The Adventures of Tintin: Secret of the Unicorn." Offering a toast to the production crew hired for the highly specialized shoots, the director raised a champagne glass and noted they had helped him squeeze in the most setups in the fewest days of any production in which he had been involved.

July 15, 2009
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3ia13021641b2079d289fc3dc3a2865694

There's a lot of talk about Avatar changing things and I'm wondering how Trek may be affected in this way. Would this technology make it actually economically possible for a 13-episode series? a 22-episode series?
If Steven Spielberg and James Cameron can use it then why not a Trek TV director?

the most setups in the fewest days of any production in which he had been involved.

Is pretty amazing for a guy like Spielberg but then again who knows how much time they will spend on lighting, atmospheric effects, and camera movement in post production...

The article talks about Avatar costing $227 million. Whatever approach is used for TV Trek needs to be cheaper, not more expensive. With budgets like that you might a well use Abrams Trek production techniques.

 

[Bluesteel]

There are two main problems with CGI.

1: They age horribly. I was watching What You Leave Behind a few days ago and I noticed in the last scene when the camera was panning out from DS9 to outerspace that the station was obviously CGI. Watch Lord of the Rings.

2: They look to fake. Can't capture human emotion properly. The scene in First contact with Picards eye or in DS9 when the camera was focused on Ezris eye had more range of emotion in it then an entire episode of CG can.


In my opinion people are to crazy over CGI. It should be made to complement the scene not take over it like Star Wars. If you have it all over the scene or make the entire show out of CGI then it will come off as fake and in a few years it will look horrible,