A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

[Deckerd]

I never felt sorry for Theon. After he killed and flayed those children I thought "fuck him, I hope he gets his". And so he did. Of course now we all want Ramsay to get worse, which probably means someone will shoot him the the eye with an arrow and that will be all she wrote.

 

[Kelthaz]

They seem to be really toning down the Theon torture scenes. I gather that much of this is happening as a build up to the main "Reek" on-page material, but so far, there hasn't been any flaying, removal of appendages or other nasty psy-ops stuff that Ramsay was infamous for. I told my wife that the audience will soon start to take some element of pity on him, and based on what she's seen so far, her response has generally been *shrug* "Meh...he deserves it". From the non-book POV, I agree - the punishment has not yet exceeded the crime. I really hope they don't puss out on this one.

The way I see it, Theon has at least 3 seasons of torture with Ramsay before he escapes. I'm sure they'll get to the more gruesome aspects of his torture in time.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I like the way they are playing it in the show. They are showing Ramsay the way that Theon first got to know him - helpful little Toady. Then, Ramsay becomes Theon's worst nightmare.

What Ramsay did to Jayne and those other women he hunts really disgusted me. Poor Jayne was already bearing the marks from being beaten in Littlefinger's brothels. Then she is bitten by Ramsay (all over her body it seems), forced to have sex with dogs and who knows what else.

Ramsay for me is by far the most revolting character, except for maybe Qyburn. I hate them both, and I hate Roose and Cersei for allowing Ramsay and Qyburn their activities.

 

[Skywalker]

So, does anyone know why Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers have been replaced with Locke and his fellow Bolton bannermen? Was it so that non-readers wouldn't confuse the Brave Companions with the Brotherhood Without Banners, or to play up the darker aspects of the Boltons leading up to the Red Wedding? Or maybe both?

 

[Brendan Moody]

I imagine that an over-the-top type like Hoat was simply too much for the producers, who prefer to water down some of the more eccentric, exaggerated, or downright crazy characters for fear they won't translate well. Rather than present a bland version of Hoat, they must have decided to replace him, and like you say this allows them to emphasize the Boltons more.

 

[Lonemagpie]

So, does anyone know why Vargo Hoat and the Brave Companions/Bloody Mummers have been replaced with Locke and his fellow Bolton bannermen? Was it so that non-readers wouldn't confuse the Brave Companions with the Brotherhood Without Banners, or to play up the darker aspects of the Boltons leading up to the Red Wedding? Or maybe both?

Clearly both - We've seen them change names before, and they'll be wanting to make sure that the audience are conditioned to feel - even if not quite consciously - that the Boltons are this season's bads.

 

[Ayelbourne]

I never felt sorry for Theon. After he killed and flayed those children I thought "fuck him, I hope he gets his". And so he did. Of course now we all want Ramsay to get worse, which probably means someone will shoot him the the eye with an arrow and that will be all she wrote.

I really got mad at him when he yelled "No, not me!". So it's ok to rape someone else then?
Made me realize what a blessing in disguise Ramsay actually is for Theon, because he really needs to be broken apart at the seems so he can put himself back together again as a better person. As he is now, he's irredeemable.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Good point. I hope they are setting up the situation in which Theon's redemption can be clearly established. I recall it being a little more wishy-washy in the books.

 

[Anwar]

I never felt sorry for Theon. After he killed and flayed those children I thought "fuck him, I hope he gets his". And so he did. Of course now we all want Ramsay to get worse, which probably means someone will shoot him the the eye with an arrow and that will be all she wrote.

Well, why don't people feel worse towards what Jaime did to Bran? His was potentially worse, because he did what he did towards someone we knew and cared about.

I know the usual excuse is "He did it out of love for Cersei", but really it's still his own fault for doing something wrong in the first place.

 

[Klaus]

What Jaime did to Bran is a neat parallel to what was done to him in turn... Bran was all about climbing and agility before the fall, and Jaime took that away from him -- and then Jaime lost all that defined him along with his sword hand. A deserving fate.

 

[Deckerd]

Jaime's been a rotter from the start. I expect him to remain a rotter throughout. However what he did to Bran was supposed to kill him instantly. It wasn't Jaime's intention to cripple the boy. For all his faults he isn't a sadist like Theon or Ramsay.

 

[Anwar]

Theon's not a sadist either though. I can't remember him ever taking any pleasure from killing anyone.

I think the TV version of Theon is loads more sympathetic than the book version though.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

Jaime is the Spike of Game of Thrones.

 

[Kelthaz]

Then Brienne is the Twilight?

 

[Kosh Naranek]

While I confess I sometimes found Jaime amusing and his chapters compelling, I never "liked" him. He flung a small boy to his death, or at least he hoped to.

I cannot condemn Theon for the Miller's boys and not condemn Jaime for Bran. I think they are both paying for their crimes, but that does not make me like them.

I have had compassion for the women in their stories - Brienne and Jeyne.

Killing children and hunting people with dogs puts you past the pale. I am looking at you Cersei, Jaime, Theon, the Hound and Ramsay. (I have probably forgotten a few.)

Qyburn and his Mengele-like experiments also turn my stomach.

When you get right down to it, most of the characters have done something I find objectionable, but Ramsay is the one I find most vile.

 

[Tyberius]

I was wondering where the dragonglass knife went. There's no other nightswatch around so no witnesses. Maybe Sam will lose a nickname?

I thought this one went a little slow. Liked the Queen of Thorns against Tywin though. Wished they had the skinchanging fight with sixskins before, but at least they're developing some bad blood with him.

I was expecting a Tyrion wedding this episode. I guess they'll be packing a lot into the last couple? Though with the Tyrion wedding, it is just a lot of inner monologue, so they can do that with a single good scene.

 

[Roshi]

lol that's the thread about the books, not the TV show!

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I have started reading Dunk and Egg.

The stories make me like the Targs a bit more. Up until I started reading them, the only Targ I really cared for was Maester Aemon.

Reading the short stories also make some of the references in ASOIAF make more sense.

 

[Tyberius]

lol that's the thread about the books, not the TV show!

I'm not sure to which post this comment is addressed. But assuming it is mine, from the OP:

I thought I'd start a thread to allow those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire books to have a spoiler-filled discussion without ruining anything for those who don't want to see any spoilers in the threads to discuss each episode. Those who haven't read the books, but who don't mind joining in a spoiler-filled discussion, are of course also welcome to join in, ask questions, etc, but be warned that this will be a thread with MAJOR SPOILERS, so read at your own peril.

I think this thread is about the TV show as they relate to the books.

 

[Skywalker]

I have started reading Dunk and Egg.

The stories make me like the Targs a bit more. Up until I started reading them, the only Targ I really cared for was Maester Aemon.

Reading the short stories also make some of the references in ASOIAF make more sense.

I love the Dunk and Egg tales. I'm actually re-reading the first one now. It's a fascinating look at a very different Westeros. Once Game of Thrones has finished its run, I wouldn't mind seeing an adaptation of Dunk and Egg. I don't know if the same format would work for them, though; maybe it'd be better if they filmed each story as a ninety-minute TV movie, like the old Sharpe films.