A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

[CaptainCanada]

We can't take anything Cersei says as truth though, she'd see slights where there were none.

Not by herself, but Cersei wasn't the only one who took it that way; that was how pretty much everybody interpreted it, including Stannis himself.

This isn't really disputed by anyone. Robert blamed Stannis for the Targaryens escaping Dragonstone, even though they had left the island long before Stannis' fleet could have been ready to sail.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, that was bad. But I can't really believe their relationship is as simple as it seems for this series. It's more complex and multi-layered with a history between both brothers, not just Robert being a jerk to Stannis.

 

[Kegg]

(even Cersei confirmed that giving Stannis Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End was intended by Robert as an insult).

Not exactly. I recall the problem was that Renly was still basically a child when the war ended, and with Dragonstone's previous lords obviously vacant, Robert needed someone to manage that estate - someone he could trust. Stannis was needed there - the right man for the right job - but a consequence of giving him that title was letting Renly have the more lucrative and prestigious Storm's End. It could be Robert's attitude towards Stannis insisting on Storm's End got more sour later, but the initial posting was not an insult.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Not exactly. I recall the problem was that Renly was still basically a child when the war ended, and with Dragonstone's previous lords obviously vacant, Robert needed someone to manage that estate - someone he could trust. Stannis was needed there - the right man for the right job - but a consequence of giving him that title was letting Renly have the more lucrative and prestigious Storm's End. It could be Robert's attitude towards Stannis insisting on Storm's End got more sour later, but the initial posting was not an insult.

I don't recall that at all. Dragonstone is a tiny estate with few resources and, historical significance to the Targaryens notwithstanding, of no real importance. Beyond which Stannis, concurrently the Master of Ships, was rarely there anyway, his duties being in the capital city, so he wasn't really managing it day-to-day.

 

[Kegg]

I don't recall that at all. Dragonstone is a tiny estate with few resources and, historical significance to the Targaryens notwithstanding, of no real importance.

I was pretty sure Robert didn't intend it as a slight so I went to see if I could find a source. This'll do (sort of):

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Baratheon_Brothers/
Key bit here:

Stannis always resented being given Dragonstone while Renly got Storm's End, and took that as a slight... but it's not necessarily true that Robert meant it that way. The Targaryen heir apparent had always been titled Prince of Dragonstone. By making Stannis the Lord of Dragonstone, Robert affirmed his brother's status as heir (which he was, until Joff's birth a few years later). Robert could just as lawfully retained both castles for his sons, and made Joffrey the Prince of Dragonstone and Tommen the Lord of Storm's End. Giving them to his brothers instead was another instance of his great, but rather careless, generosity.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Ah, I won't contradict the author then.

Reinforces Robert's poor management skills, though.

 

[Anwar]

Also, Dragonstone was home to the most loyal of the Targ Loyalists IIRC. Someone trustworthy had to go there to make sure they weren't planning something.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Not really. The Targaryens fled in secret because the castellan and co. were debating turning them over to Robert. And the Island is barely inhabited, anyway - just change the castle garrison.

 

[Skywalker]

Robert and Aerys the Mad were the worst things to happen to Westeros. Sure, Rhaegar didn't exactly help matters by running off with Lyanna like he did, but from the sound of it, Rhaegar would have been a hundred times the king that Robert turned out to be.

 

[superdeluxe]

Jace lacob has impressions of the first 3 episodes!

@televisionary: The first two episodes of S2 #GameofThrones are very, very strong indeed. Some spellbinding, heart-pounding stuff. I've missed this world.

Episode 3:

Another fantastic episode of #GameOfThrones, written by @BryanCogman. Brutal, beautiful, and glittering in its malice. Loved. Saving 204…



Ken tucker review:

And I'm here to report that my lack of homework in no way prevented me from becoming enthralled with this series all over again. That's a testament to what adapters David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have accomplished in whittling down and reshaping Martin's novels for weekly TV. It's difficult enough to hook a viewer like me, who resists sprawling, noncontemporary narratives; it's another level of pop culture wizardry to make such storytelling seem so vivid, so vital, and just plain fun. A-

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20470532_20580368,00.html

 

[hyzmarca]

It's a nice subtly for a series that's supposedly dark and cynical: The guys who are amoral (Tywin) and violate their own principles (Stannis) may seem to have the upper hand but eventually it blows up in their faces (Tywin suffering patricide, Stannis' usage of black magic ended up giving the Lannisters a huge advantage).

Stanis's problem is that he isn't using enough black magic. Aegon had his dragons and he used this for shock and awe.l He rode in like a pimp, incinerated his enemies, and made everyone bow down before him. And that's what Stanis should have been emulating.

Mel gives Stanis a decisive advantage that he should have flaunted from the very beginning instead of trying to keep it a secret. When he decides that he wants Mel to stay away from that assault of King's Landing because he doesn't want to be accused of winning the throne via black magic, he's making an incredibly stupid error. If I were in his position I'd want everyone to know that I won the throne via black magic. People do not fuck with sorcerer-kings.

And once the war is over Stanis would have plenty of time to get Mel to teach him her tricks, become a Lich, and rule Westeros forever.

 

[Anwar]

Mel's black magic is powered from Stannis' own life energy though, if she kept using it she would've killed him eventually.

 

[hyzmarca]

Mel's black magic is powered from Stannis' own life energy though, if she kept using it she would've killed him eventually.

That's one of the reasons why becoming an immortal undead monster should be part of the long-term plan.

 

[Kegg]

Also, Dragonstone was home to the most loyal of the Targ Loyalists IIRC.

Yep. House Velaryon is one example.

 

[Hyperspace05]

Readers know who this is...
http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/wicnet/19899347101/1/tumblr_m1g9kbyKgx1r9h4he

EDIT: sorry about the large image

 

[InklingStar]

Readers know who this is...
http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/wicnet/19899347101/1/tumblr_m1g9kbyKgx1r9h4he

EDIT: sorry about the large image

Depends on the book, of course.

Yeah he looks good, I was never quite able to imagine him from the descriptions in the books.

 

[sidious618]

Surprised to see him in this coming season.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

IIRC (although it's been a while since I read ACOK), he doesn't show up until the very end of the book / season.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

HBO has released two new promos, the new faces of season 2 and the destinations of season 2:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flIHsZvC1SU&feature=player_embedded[/yt]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww6rFGkU_44&feature=player_embedded[/yt]

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Not sure if anyone has seen/read this article already, but a good interview with GRRM. Some talk of TWOW in it.

http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/...ces-for-song-of-ice-and-fire.html?id=10593041

Cheers,
-CM-