Yikes. Thanks!
A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion
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Yikes. Thanks!
Just saw it this morning... Nice way to end the year!
GRRM was also just awarded Author of the Year by (I think) the New York Times.
Cheers,
-CM-
GRRM was also just awarded Author of the Year by (I think) the New York Times.
Cheers,
-CM-
I've read it and also liked it a lot.
It doesn't exactly fill the gap between the last Theon chapter and the last Jon's chapter, the one where he gets Ramsay's insane letter and then gets stabbed, but it sheds some light on several things:
- Stannis has no intention of killing Asha.
- Stannis intends to kill Theon.
- Stannis thinks that his situation is not as dire as it looked in last ADWD chapters and he has a plan/strategy for dealing with Bolton's forces.
I still think that Ramsay got his ass kicked by Stannis' forces and his letter is just a bunch of insane ramblings.
Another thing that's obvious from this chapter is that the decision about which chapters from ADWD will be transferred to the next book was random. There's no reason for this chapter to be in the next book. GRRM needs better editors.
- Stannis has no intention of killing Asha.
- Stannis intends to kill Theon.
- Stannis thinks that his situation is not as dire as it looked in last ADWD chapters and he has a plan/strategy for dealing with Bolton's forces.
I still think that Ramsay got his ass kicked by Stannis' forces and his letter is just a bunch of insane ramblings.
Another thing that's obvious from this chapter is that the decision about which chapters from ADWD will be transferred to the next book was random. There's no reason for this chapter to be in the next book. GRRM needs better editors.
Theon's chapters were my favorites in ADWD, I expect them to be as awesome in TWOW.
I completely agree that he needs better (more assertive) editors, but I disagree in that I didn't like it all that much. 6000 words that could easily have been cut down to 1000.
I put ADWD down about 100 pages into the book precisely because I'm tired of his rambling. I really wish someone would get through to him and get him to tell the story, not any and all irrelevant stories that pop into his head as he tries to grope his way to the conclusion.
Small chance of that, since he got the most recognition for ADWD. TIME magazine listed ADWD as the book of the year and he got named Author of the Year by USA TODAY.
I dare to say that the actual quality of the book had nothing to do with those decisions. It was because the HBO series are very popular and because the hype and the anticipation for this book were enormous. So expect another 1000 pages with nothing happening in half of them ...
+1
Sort of.
The first three books were great and he deserves a lot of credit for them, the last two no so much, and in my opinion he deserves to be called out on it.
So, I agree that the awards he got this year are a result of the popularity of the TV series that was released this year and not a result of the book we got this year.
But I think we can consider the awards as being for the entirety of his work on ASOIF.
Which is deserved.
Assuming he does manage to finish the story, because if he doesn't then the great start it was off to will mean the let-down is just that much worse.
* I guess "this year" should now read "last year", seeing as we're into 2012 now.
Well, I loved the first three books (though Bran's and Arya's stuff in ASOS got really boring at some points). I liked the majority of AFFC and the parts of ADWD that were in Westeros. IMO, Theon's chapters in ADWD are some of his best writing in the entire series.
I can live with his ramblings, as long as they are somehow connected to the story he's trying to tell at the moment. I hate it when he goes on a whole page description of what's everyone wearing and eating or when he writes whole chapters where people just go from one place to another and nothing happens in them.
So in the end everything boils down to the need to get him a much better editors, someone who will tell him that releasing an unfinished book is bad.
I can live with his ramblings, as long as they are somehow connected to the story he's trying to tell at the moment. I hate it when he goes on a whole page description of what's everyone wearing and eating or when he writes whole chapters where people just go from one place to another and nothing happens in them.
So in the end everything boils down to the need to get him a much better editors, someone who will tell him that releasing an unfinished book is bad.
I still think all of the relevant events that occurred in AFFC/ADWD could have been condensed into one book. There are just too many characters and too many plotlines, and Martin keeps adding more. I seriously hope he starts trimming the fat in TWOW. The series is supposed to be heading towards its end point now.
In a way HBO can actually remedy some of those criticisms about GRRM in how the producers and writers deal with his ramblings and inconsequential/filler segments to scenes. They can effectively be that 'assertive editor' who doesn't exist in the publishing end and make a more coherent narrative.
They'll definitely have to considering how much padding there is on the last few books and HBO only doing 10 episode seasons.
They'll definitely have to considering how much padding there is on the last few books and HBO only doing 10 episode seasons.
I can easily see AFfC and ADwD being condensed into one season with 10 episodes.
Just throw out the Ironborn crap, reduce Dorn to some scenes with Ariane and cut at least half of Jon's, Tyrion's, Brienne's and Dany's chapters and you're there.
As for the chapter:
I like it. It angers me though, that it was moved from ADWD to TWOW while ADWD got pretty much an entire chapter dedicated to the Nightswatch's food supply.
Just throw out the Ironborn crap, reduce Dorn to some scenes with Ariane and cut at least half of Jon's, Tyrion's, Brienne's and Dany's chapters and you're there.
As for the chapter:
I like it. It angers me though, that it was moved from ADWD to TWOW while ADWD got pretty much an entire chapter dedicated to the Nightswatch's food supply.
It also had a chapter about river turtles, 5 chapters about a completely useless POV who dies without any consequence to the story and several chapters of Dany thinking about sex with some sellsword.
Yeah, but not the part about the food.
Honestly, 2 lines of dialogue would have sufficed:
Jon: So, how does our food supply look?
Bowen Marsh: It's not gonna be enough.
The end.
Honestly, 2 lines of dialogue would have sufficed:
Jon: So, how does our food supply look?
Bowen Marsh: It's not gonna be enough.
The end.
Does this stuff start more in the later books? I'm about 600 pages into AGoT and so far haven't noticed much of the stuff you guys are complaining about.
^ Yes... He (GRRM) definitely starts suffering from loquaciousness more and more as you get later on into the series.
Cheers,
-CM-
Cheers,
-CM-
I noticed that actually seems to be pretty common for these kinds of long running series, at least judging by the reviews on Amazon. Which makes sense, I guess, after a while authors probably start running out of good ideas, or feel more free to get carried away with unnecessary stuff.
^ True. Although, in GRRM's case, I personally tend to think he has too MANY ideas and likes to wander off the path of the primary plotline(s) too easily, or invent/create yet another new character...
But, that's just IMO. YMMV, of course.
Cheers,
-CM-
But, that's just IMO. YMMV, of course.
Cheers,
-CM-
AGOT is the tightest written book in the series so far. Not the best - that's A Storm Of Swords - but the one that has the least food, clothes and traveling descriptions.
An example (if you are 600 pages in, I think it won't spoil anything) - Catelyn goes from Winterfell to King's Landing and her entire journey there is skipped. One chapter she's in Winterfell (it's the chapter with an assassin's attack on Bran) and the next she's entering King's Landing and that's it. In later books this entire journey would have taken at least 3-4 chapters, where most of the text would be a descriptions of what's going on around her, what is she wearing, eating, what's the story behind every tree, stone and ruin on the way.
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