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A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Spoiler-Filled Discussion

At the end of the 4th Book, who is Pate? Why was he saved as the last lines of the 4th book?
The real Pate was the young Citadel student killed in the prologue. By the end of the book he's been replaced by the Faceless Man - presumably Jaqen H'ghar - who killed him.

I get that the guy at the end is the killer at the beginning, but how did you get that he's a Faceless Man, more specificly Jaqen H'ghar? (no book 5 spoilers please)
Jaqen changed his face in front of Arya and the guy with this exact appearance was the one who killed Pate.
 
Gee that must have been an interesting job for the sulpter.
"So what did you do at work today"
"Oh, nothing. I just sculpted some male genitals for Game of Thrones."
 
The real Pate was the young Citadel student killed in the prologue. By the end of the book he's been replaced by the Faceless Man - presumably Jaqen H'ghar - who killed him.

I get that the guy at the end is the killer at the beginning, but how did you get that he's a Faceless Man, more specificly Jaqen H'ghar? (no book 5 spoilers please)
Jaqen changed his face in front of Arya and the guy with this exact appearance was the one who killed Pate.

Oh I either flew by the killers description, or I didn't remember Jaqen's.

Next question: why would anyone think that Jaqen = Syrio? (Apart from the fact that we didn't see any body for Syrio)
 
I get that the guy at the end is the killer at the beginning, but how did you get that he's a Faceless Man, more specificly Jaqen H'ghar? (no book 5 spoilers please)
Jaqen changed his face in front of Arya and the guy with this exact appearance was the one who killed Pate.

Oh I either flew by the killers description, or I didn't remember Jaqen's.

Next question: why would anyone think that Jaqen = Syrio? (Apart from the fact that we didn't see any body for Syrio)
Jaqen=Syrio theory is based on fandom's love for Syrio and a lot of wishful thinking.
We didn't see Syrio's body and Jaqen was picked from KL dungeons shortly afterwards. Personally, I find it hard to believe that the Kingsguard guy who fought him, spared him after Syrio killed or maimed several Lannister guardsmen. Syrio is dead as a result of a very noble sacrifice.
 
I think of them as a great fantasy epic. They are well written, but IMO would have been better if the saga were a bit more streamlined. Just my .02
 
Do you guys consider those books to be 'great novels' or think they are well written?

Much of the books are well-written (there are specific scenes and chapters I'm thinking of - not sure if I should spoil them, because a lot of the examples are from ADWD.) I'm withholding judgment on whether it's a "great fantasy epic" until I see how the final two books conclude - the first three are certainly tremendous, but a great build-up doesn't mean anything if you can't provide a satisfying ending.
 
Do you guys consider those books to be 'great novels' or think they are well written?
They're very good reads, and go quite quickly for their size. Even the weakest of them is the sort of novel you can find yourself plunging through over a dozen chapters in an afternoon.

As literature they have a few standard fantasy ticks - Martin must dutifully spend a great deal of time explaining heraldry, or what so-and-so is eating - and the strength of their plotting loosens as the series progresses, but it's the best non-Pratchett fantasy I've read in a long time.
 
The last two books could've definitely gotten some more editing/fat-trimming out of them, I think.

(Speaking of which, is it just me, or are almost all of the Lords This-and-That fat and/or huge beyond belief? Especially in ADWD, it seemed like every non-POV/non-major male character was a porker!)

But yes, all in all... pretty good reads.

Cheers,
-CM-
 
I just read "The Eye of the World" by Robert Jordan... I don't read a lot of fantasy, but if that's what we're comparing GRRM to, then A Song of Ice and Fire is a goddamn masterpiece.
 
The last two books could've definitely gotten some more editing/fat-trimming out of them, I think.

(Speaking of which, is it just me, or are almost all of the Lords This-and-That fat and/or huge beyond belief? Especially in ADWD, it seemed like every non-POV/non-major male character was a porker!)

But yes, all in all... pretty good reads.

Cheers,
-CM-

I agree about the need for editing in the last two books; in particular, Tyrion and Dany's chapters needed some serious trimming in ADWD.

But I'm not sure about the comment about ADWD having a large amount of large lords. Aside from Wyman Manderly, Tyrion's lord who died of the pale mare, and Doran Martell, who else is really fat? (Come to think of it, Doran Martell might not even be fat - I'm only thinking of him as such because he's got such bad gout, which is traditionally associated with overindulgence.) Any other large characters were introduced long before ADWD: Illyrio, Sam, possibly Varys, Robert Baratheon, and Lollys (and none of them are lords except Robert, who's obviously not in ADWD.)
 
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