A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

So, "In the Flesh" seems to a marmite episode that is generally more liked than disliked, much like the rest of VOY S5. "In the Flesh" also received a score of 7.9/10 over on IMDb, out of a hundred votes.

Who the fuck cares? It's like you are trying to prove that your opinion is right, while GodBen's is wrong. You know, opinions aren't provable anyway. Your opinion (or other's, for that matter) is just that; your opinion.

So the general opinion of the generally decent "In the Flesh" is essentially 'Species 8472 ave sum spies posing cunningly as Feds, so thta ruinz dem, hur hur hur hur!'

My spelling is better than that. I have two separate spell-checkers in action, the first is a dictionary plug-in for Firefox and the second is the spell-checker in the Google toolbar. I don't deny that sometimes spelling mistakes get through, and there are times when my sentence structure leaves much to be desired, but I don't feel your characterisation of me gives a fair representation of my vernacular.

Your language usage and articulateness is just fine and ranks among the best I've seen on this board. I love reading your sentences. But not only is TedShatner10 absolutely wrong about that, the phrasing of his remark could very well interpreted as trolling.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

So the general opinion of the generally decent "In the Flesh" is essentially 'Species 8472 ave sum spies posing cunningly as Feds, so thta ruinz dem, hur hur hur hur!'

Species 8472 just wasn't well suited for this story. Like I said, the idea is sound and so is the message of the episode but I just could not get past the poor choice of turning these alien beings into humans that we make peace with. If they had used another race I might have enjoyed it better.

I much rather watch "In the Flesh" than "Unimatrix Zero"

I actually enjoyed "Unimatrix Zero". I thought the idea of using the dream realm and those drones to mount a civil war as a way to finally bring down the Borg once and for all was a neat idea. Part I set things up nicely but Part II dropped the ball.

since how can you conventionally fight a race like Species 8472 with one ship, when their ships can plough through Borg Cubes and fucking planets!?

Here's an idea--don't use them.

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

My spelling is better than that. I have two separate spell-checkers in action, the first is a dictionary plug-in for Firefox and the second is the spell-checker in the Google toolbar. I don't deny that sometimes spelling mistakes get through, and there are times when my sentence structure leaves much to be desired, but I don't feel your characterisation of me gives a fair representation of my vernacular.

I apologise, I was not criticizing your spellling and grammar (which is excellent), I was being sarcastic about the mindset many have towards this episode.

For some reason I never deemed "In the Flesh" to be as bad as "Threshold", "Demons", "Elogium" or "Unforgettable" and earning zero marks because of having nothing salvagable about it. Species 8472 had not really been defanged as a race and there seemed to be strong air of paranoia if they recreated San Francisco to a disconcerting degree of accuracy if they just brushed with Voyager properly on one occasion. And the crew were just dealing with some of their agents, not Species 8472 proper. Like Jammer said in his review, this very much like a TOS episode, and in my opinion an essentially a late 90s version of "By Any Other Name".

But it appears that the writers of In the Flesh wanted Boothby to be Janeway's mentor too so they concocted the notion that he was a mentor to all the great starship captains. It's a retcon, and it's a retcon that I don't buy. They took an interesting character from a great episode and they exaggerated his role to the point of absurdity.

It was a mock up Starfleet HQ anyway. It came off as quirky rather than wrong that it was the alien posing as the groundskeeper, instead of a faux admiral, who was the defacto leader and main spokesman. He's inconspicuous and harmless looking, much like Ben Linus. Why was there a retcon when the real Boothby knew a high ranking officer like Picard when he was a kid, but also a fresh faced cadet like Crusher many decades later, already hinting at the real Boothby's social importance at Starfleet.

Fair enough, I guess I'll stop then, it's not like as if this thread is making me the crack money that I hoped it would. I guess it's back to male whoring for me. If any of your would like to avail of my new profession then feel free to send me a PM.

So long guys, it's been fun.

Please carry on, it is interesting seeing a different take on such a contentious series. I diagree with a lot of your opinions, but I'm not losing sleep over this and neither should you. I only diagree with some of your reviews, not all of them.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Fair enough, I guess I'll stop then, it's not like as if this thread is making me the crack money that I hoped it would. I guess it's back to male whoring for me. If any of your would like to avail of my new profession then feel free to send me a PM.

So long guys, it's been fun.

Dude, if you stop this thread, I'm shall see you wear the gay cowboy outfit for the rest of your life! If you quit, I'm going to have to go find my old VHSs of these episodes and finish for you, and that shall not make me happy. I'm already schizophrenic enough as it is.

(BTW, keep an eye out for my PM. Can I get you wearing the cowboy outfit with the male whoring, or is it extra? )

GodBen, your spelling and grammar are perfect. I can only imagine that it was targeted to equate you with using l33tsp3ak. T3h audac1ty!

This thread has lost no credibility whatsoever, and I'm annoyed that certain people have seen fit to put it down simply because they share a different opinion, something that goes on far too often on this board anyway. Rather than attacking someone, why not simply express your own opinion and let that be that? If a discussion results, fine. If not, fine. So far, this thread has been pretty great for mostly civil discussion, let's keep it that way and carry forward.

A word of advice to all: personal attacks make it seem like one does not really have an argument and knows it, so for that reason alone they should be avoided.

Going back one final time to "Drone," I had a thought: we know originally that Harry Kim was going to die in "Scorpion" and be replaced by a male Borg. Is it possible, given that the actor who played one appeared in several Trek episodes and productions, that he had been offered the part in an interim period where the Seven character was male? If not, is it at least possible that "Drone" shows more of what the original take on the male character might have been like?

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I clearly overreacted and did not intend to directly attack GodBen so I apologise again, but it did not feel right to compare the compelling "Drone" with fluff like "Twisted", so this is my first serious disagreement with GodBen in this thread.

I don't feel so strongly about "In the Flesh", but that too is a better episode than "Twisted" and I've completely forgotten about "Coda", so that demonstrates how bad that episode was. I found "In the Flesh" a little silly, but mostly in a good way, much like most of TOS and "The Thaw".

 

[Frazzled]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Noooooooo don't stop GodBen!! You really lighten my day you're so funny!

 

[TedShatner10]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Oh God I'm starting to feel like Clive Anderson, I've really put my foot in it.

 

[flemm]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'd like to see this thread continued as well. I haven't posted in it previously, but I find it interesting, if nothing else because I am a hater who is thinking of revisiting Voyager at some point. Please go on

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Don't stop the thread GodBen. Even though I probably only agree with you 50% of the time, I still enjoy reading it and hearing your thoughts on these episodes.

Besides you've come this far you may as well finish it.

 

[Alex1939]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The plus side if you quit, no more watching Voyager!

:drumroll:

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The plus side if you quit, no more watching Voyager!

:drumroll:

Lame.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'd like to think that GodBen has thicker skin than to let an argumentative disagreement with his scoring cause him to give this up. This is the internet, and if I may quote Q, if you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

Of course, if I'm wrong, we do need to fill the position. Which naturally means wacky job interviews! *crickets* ...Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[NumberSix]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ I agree. Come on GodBen, we're wasting valuable review & discussion time!

 

[Alex1939]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Lame.

No doubt, if I had to sum up the whole of Voyager I could not choose a better word.


Lol at everyone in the last few posts. I took Godben's last statements as sarcasm.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^How predictable and unoriginal.

If you can't stand like Voyager at all, why are you here?

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Fair enough, I guess I'll stop then, it's not like as if this thread is making me the crack money that I hoped it would. I guess it's back to male whoring for me. If any of your would like to avail of my new profession then feel free to send me a PM.

So long guys, it's been fun.

I'm on my way to Holyhead right now baby. I hope you're versatile.

 

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Lol at everyone in the last few posts. I took Godben's last statements as sarcasm.

Oh, I'm sure he was being sarcastic (after all there's no way Ben ever stopped selling his body to willing men in the first place ), but seriously, does it really hurt if some people express their encouragement for his work in this thread? I don't think it does.

I clearly overreacted and did not intend to directly attack GodBen so I apologise again, ...

I think it's very decent of you to say that. I know from my own experience how hard it can be to concede that something you have said was wrong.

Clive Anderson

Oh, what an asshole. I don't know why he seems to think slamming the work of his guests is such a good idea. Besides, Don't Forget To Remember is a beautiful song.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

No, Clive Anderson is a legend for his HIGNFY appearance when he made Piers Morgan look like the twat he is.

I don't think the Bee Gees come out of that interview particularly well either.

 

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

No, Clive Anderson is a legend for his HIGNFY appearance when he made Piers Morgan look like the twat he is.

I don't think the Bee Gees come out of that interview particularly well either.

Well, I don't really know the guy. This clip was my first exposure to him. And judging from the way he constantly made fun of the Bee Gee's career I'm not so sure if I'd really like him that much. I don't think it was necessary for Barry to break up the interview and leave the show, but I can understand why he was a bit upset.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

My turn as a man whore didn't work out so well, I only received one PM and she wanted me to do something involving her horse. I forgot to put "no animals" in my ad...

But I digress, and since you have all requested that I continue so fervently I have decided that the best thing for me to do would be to open my own website to post reviews on. That way I can charge everyone $5 to view each review, and soon I will be on the way to sweet crack-induced nirvana.

But unfortunately my web-coding isn't up to current standards, and eliciting money for the purposes of purchasing narcotics is apparently a breach of my parole, so I'm just going to continue with this thread instead. Here we go:


I can see the promo now: From the man who brought you The Visitor and In the Pale Moonlight comes...

Neelix and some cartoon characters on the holodeck.





















No, seriously.

Please watch our show.


Once Upon a Time (***½)

Actually, it's not that bad. The story idea is interesting and it makes good use of Neelix's previously defined history. There's some good throwbacks to the Metreon Cascade which killed all his family as it is seemingly played out before his eyes as the forest burns down around him. And the idea that Neelix is trying to protect Naomi from the truth because of how his past still haunts him is very good.

It's not a perfect episode, I think I spotted a continuity issue and they played up the suspense angle at the end when they should have gone for the emotional angle, but ultimately I found the episode surprisingly enjoyable. This episode joins Jetrel, Fair Trade and Mortal Coil as Neelix episodes which manage to score 3½ stars.

Welcome to the show Michael Taylor, considering your history on DS9, the fact that you later joined BSG's writing staff and the fact that you co-wrote the pilot of Virtuality with RDM, I'm going to be keeping a close eye on you.