A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen, the next episode is amazing! It will open up with Voyager sitting in an alien shipyard undergoing repairs. Torres will be complaining about the difficulty of incorporating so much alien tech into a Starfleet ship. There is a wonderful little scene between Ken Shmully and Joe Carey as the Doc gives him all sorts of "helpful" suggestions about ways to improve the new sickbay design. There is also a subplot with Neelix and Janeway discussing the cost of the repairs with the dockyard administrator and Janeway wondering how to cope with the fact that they have no money. She'll be forced to confront her aversion to sharing starfleet tech for necessary services. Janeway and Chuckles will have a heart to heart about what to do about all the crew they lost to the Hirogen, and Janeway will have a dramatic breakdown when Lt. Torres informs her that the shuttle-o-matic was irreparably dammaged but they were able to trade it with the aliens to help pay for the ship's repairs.

*sigh*

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hmm... Episode about Voyager getting repaired. B'Elanna fixing things with her staff and others contemplating how bad Voyager's condition is.... Something worth telling for 40 minutes? Riiight. I guess I have different ideas about what constitutes an episode worth watching.

 

[brcarthey]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hmm... Episode about Voyager getting repaired. B'Elanna fixing things with her staff and others contemplating how bad Voyager's condition is.... Something worth telling for 40 minutes? Riiight. I guess I have different ideas about what constitutes an episode worth watching.

it's not like we were ever treated to episodes where voyager had to run in "gray mode" or had to set down on a planet for a major overhaul of the warp drive.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Nightingale.

Voyager was planetside in pieces, and the baddies were bombing her from orbit because Kim doesn't understand that choosing sides in a war is a prime directive and non interference violation.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hmm... Episode about Voyager getting repaired. B'Elanna fixing things with her staff and others contemplating how bad Voyager's condition is.... Something worth telling for 40 minutes? Riiight. I guess I have different ideas about what constitutes an episode worth watching.

it's not like we were ever treated to episodes where voyager had to run in "gray mode" or had to set down on a planet for a major overhaul of the warp drive.

And why would such a story be worth telling? Why would the viewers want to see something like that for 40 minutes?

And also - what Guy said above.

 

[apenpaap]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hmm... Episode about Voyager getting repaired. B'Elanna fixing things with her staff and others contemplating how bad Voyager's condition is.... Something worth telling for 40 minutes? Riiight. I guess I have different ideas about what constitutes an episode worth watching.

it's not like we were ever treated to episodes where voyager had to run in "gray mode" or had to set down on a planet for a major overhaul of the warp drive.

And why would such a story be worth telling? Why would the viewers want to see something like that for 40 minutes?

And also - what Guy said above.

We don't even nmeed to see it. They can just make the first line of the episode: "Captain's log, stardate 47474.7: we have left the repair station of the friendly aliens who helped us reverse the damage the Hirogen caused. Now on to the crisis of the week."

 

[Gotham Central]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hmm... Episode about Voyager getting repaired. B'Elanna fixing things with her staff and others contemplating how bad Voyager's condition is.... Something worth telling for 40 minutes? Riiight. I guess I have different ideas about what constitutes an episode worth watching.

it's not like we were ever treated to episodes where voyager had to run in "gray mode" or had to set down on a planet for a major overhaul of the warp drive.

And why would such a story be worth telling? Why would the viewers want to see something like that for 40 minutes?

And also - what Guy said above.

Hmmm....even Enterprise managed to make one of its more interesting episodes about this very premise.

Good writers manage to incorporate those details into stories rather than simply ignore them.

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

it's not like we were ever treated to episodes where voyager had to run in "gray mode" or had to set down on a planet for a major overhaul of the warp drive.

And why would such a story be worth telling? Why would the viewers want to see something like that for 40 minutes?

And also - what Guy said above.

Hmmm....even Enterprise managed to make one of its more interesting episodes about this very premise.

Good writers manage to incorporate those details into stories rather than simply ignore them.

this

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Hmmm....even Enterprise managed to make one of its more interesting episodes about this very premise.

Thank goodness Voyager didn't.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

And why would such a story be worth telling? Why would the viewers want to see something like that for 40 minutes?

Go watch Enterprise's Damage, I consider it to be one of the greatest episodes of modern Trek and the one of the major reasons why I regard that show as superior to Voyager.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Sorry, I don't watch Enterprise. So far my Trek begins with TOS and ends with Voyager (+ the new movie of course).

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well I'm not sure how much of it you've watched but you should give Enterprise a try, much like Voyager it is unfairly maligned by many in the fanbase. The first two seasons are like Voyager but with better inter-episode continuity; they just fly around the galaxy on their own bumping into new aliens every week. The continuity in the show was actually fairly good, if the ship was damaged one week (Minefield) then they would have to find a place to repair the next (Dead Stop). If they said they were going to Risa in an episode (Fallen Hero) then they would still be heading there the next week (Desert Crossing) and they would finally arrive in the episode after that (Two Days and Two Nights).

Season 3 was what Year of Hell should have been, a year-long arc which puts the crew in a highly dangerous region of space and it doesn't end in a reset button. And the final season is more fan-wank than Trials and Tribbleations and Trek XI put together, so if you're into the sort of thing you might enjoy it.

I don't think it was a great show, but it did address many of the issues I had with Voyager.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I know GodBen. And if you have given Voyager a chance, I may very well do the same with Enterprise one day.

I have seen handful of Enterprise episodes, tho. The ones in the fan collections. I did like the pilot episode. It was alright for me. But I just don't feel the crew at all. Like asked in another thread - why do people like Voyager- it comes down to likeable characters. At least for me. I loved Picard's gang, liked Sisko's gang a lot, and Janeway's crew... well, I guess you can imagine my thoughts on them. Tee hee. But something is off when it comes to Enterprise.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

That's true, the characters on Enterprise weren't great, but I do think they got better in the later seasons. Archer's transformation in the third season from naive moron to determined moron was good, and I grew to like Trip, Phlox and Reed. I never liked T'Pol all that much, and Hoshi and Travis could have been replaced by manikins soon after the pilot with no significant changes to the show.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

If we're splitting it three ways then we'll need more than a twelve-pack. I am Irish, after all.

Gah, you're right! This one, he's more liquor than man!

Hey, I liked Klingon Neelix. Am I falsely remembering a Klingon Janeway?

Klingon Janeway was the big WTF beginning of the first part. As for Klingon Neelix, he made absolutely no sense because he still looked like a Talaxian but with head ridges. I mean, what the hell? A half-magic holodeck?

Ah, glad I wasn't hallucinating. I liked the sight gag of the Klingonized Talaxian, but that was about it.

Nightingale.

Voyager was planetside in pieces, and the baddies were bombing her from orbit because Kim doesn't understand that choosing sides in a war is a prime directive and non interference violation.

And that made so little sense for so many reasons. Apparently, warp coils can just be hoisted out and serviced in a planetary atmosphere?

Incidentally, I was reading the TNG TM the other day, and the part about warp coils imposed some rather interesting limits in regard to coil service and lifespan that VGR clearly violated - but I guess since it's not canon it didn't matter.

Hmm... Episode about Voyager getting repaired. B'Elanna fixing things with her staff and others contemplating how bad Voyager's condition is.... Something worth telling for 40 minutes? Riiight. I guess I have different ideas about what constitutes an episode worth watching.

it's not like we were ever treated to episodes where voyager had to run in "gray mode" or had to set down on a planet for a major overhaul of the warp drive.

And why would such a story be worth telling? Why would the viewers want to see something like that for 40 minutes?

Well, you work it into the background of the story, or:

We don't even nmeed to see it. They can just make the first line of the episode: "Captain's log, stardate 47474.7: we have left the repair station of the friendly aliens who helped us reverse the damage the Hirogen caused. Now on to the crisis of the week."

That works too.

Hmmm....even Enterprise managed to make one of its more interesting episodes about this very premise.

Good writers manage to incorporate those details into stories rather than simply ignore them.

Yeah, I'm not quick to defend "Enterprise" but that was a relatively good episode.

That's true, the characters on Enterprise weren't great, but I do think they got better in the later seasons. Archer's transformation in the third season from naive moron to determined moron was good, and I grew to like Trip, Phlox and Reed. I never liked T'Pol all that much, and Hoshi and Travis could have been replaced by manikins soon after the pilot with no significant changes to the show.

"Naive moron to determined moron."

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"Damage" was a great episode but Enterprise's first two seasons really aren't really that good.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Vis à Vis (½)

The episode starts out in the holodeck, which I assumed meant that Tom was trying to fix it after the whole grid was overloaded in the last episode, but apparently not. Then Shmully shows up complaining that Tom hasn't been spending any time in sickbay over the last few weeks, which I assumed would lead to a comment about sickbay being blowed up real good last week, but that didn't happen. Then it is revealed that Tom is now obsessed with repairing a 20th century car, which I assumed would somehow be tied into him being trapped in that 20th century setting last week, but no he is just being an obsessive ass. By the time we got to sickbay half way through the episode and saw that it was in the same pristine condition it was in before being blowed up real good... I was disappointed. At that point I realised it must have been a production goof and that this episode was produced at a different time and placed here as a mistake, so I checked the production number and was shocked to see that the episode is exactly where it should be.

Considering the events of the past two episodes, I've deducted a whole star from this episode's score for completely ignoring one of the major events of this series. I can understand them wanting to forget that space nazis ever happened, but I don't think that is what happened here.

I must confess that I never liked Tom Paris and one of the surprising things about this rewatch is that I actually find him quite likable (not including the times he makes sarcastic comments on the bridge). Seeing this episode again made me realise that the reason I've disliked him for so long is almost entirely based on this episode where for no apparent reason he is portrayed as a lazy and annoying jerk. That should make him my role-model you say, and I respond by calling you cheeky and dying a little inside.

I didn't like the episode, I didn't like Tom's characterisation, I didn't like how Tom solved a 24th century technology problem with his knowledge of 20th century automobiles (although my understanding of 17th century stage-coaches has proved very useful in my IT jobs), and I don't like seeing Bulldog with hair. It's just wrong.

 

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The episode starts out in the holodeck, which I assumed meant that Tom was trying to fix it after the whole grid was overloaded in the last episode, but apparently not. Then Shmully shows up complaining that Tom hasn't been spending any time in sickbay over the last few weeks, which I assumed would lead to a comment about sickbay being blowed up real good last week, but that didn't happen. Then it is revealed that Tom is now obsessed with repairing a 20th century car, which I assumed would somehow be tied into him being trapped in that 20th century setting last week, but no he is just being an obsessive ass. By the time we got to sickbay half way through the episode and saw that it was in the same pristine condition it was in before being blowed up real good... I was disappointed. At that point I realised it must have been a production goof and that this episode was produced at a different time and placed here as a mistake, so I checked the production number and was shocked to see that the episode is exactly where it should be.

You, Sir, are a very mean man. But you are absolutely right.

... and I don't like seeing Bulldog with hair. It's just wrong.

Wow, I didn't even notice that it was good ol' Bulldog!

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The episode was really unbelievably mediocre and mundane, I literally can't remember anything that happened in it except for the body switch and I watched it just last summer.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Wow, I didn't even notice that it was good ol' Bulldog!

Probably because he wasn't constantly shouting and barking.