A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Some people here will argue this, ...

I won't. Season four was definitely one of Voyager's strongest. It's a shame they couldn't really live up to that quality in the subsequent seasons.

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I thought season 5 was just as good as season 4 if not better.

No, but I really hope you like the next episode. I'd probably put it in the top 5 episodes of the series for me. The Introduction of the cute, but oh so brief Jennifer Lien.

"Before & After" is one of my top 5 Voyager episodes as well.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Those of you who love graphs... standby.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I came to the conclusion that my season round-up segment where I focus on Braga is a little too narrow-minded, so I've decided to expand it to include all the main staff writers on Voyager. To do this I have gone back to seasons 1 and 2 and collected the data I needed and made some graphs which hopefully everyone should be able to understand. Ready? Then lets begin.


Season 1

The blue bars represent the average score each writer attained and the green bar is the season average. This list only includes writers who wrote more than one episode, one-off writers were not included. The number in the brackets next to each name represents how many episodes the writer wrote, so Jeri Taylor and Kenneth Biller wrote two each while Michael Piller and Brannon Braga wrote 4.

As you can see, Taylor and Biller had a good year while Braga and Piller ended up as average but below the season average.


Season 2

Menosky wins this season, but only because he only wrote one episode (he is included because he writes a hell of a lot more later on). Piller makes a nice comeback to score 6.5 for the season, newcomer Lisa Klink gets an average, Biller and Taylor fall from grace to score 4 each, and Braga languishes behind them all.


Overall

This is a combination of seasons 1 & 2, Menosky's lead is a statistical anomaly since he only has one episode, so Michael Piller is the real winner with a score of 5.75 out of 8 episodes. Taylor gets ever so slightly above the series average, Biller is slightly under average and Braga has a score of only 4.2 out of 10 episodes. Poor guy.


I plan to keep this up over the course of the show so the next update on this will be in my season 3 round-up in about a week. Once I am finished I will be able to determine who I believe to be Voyager's best and worst writers.

Why am I doing this? Because my PC broke down and I've been running a HDD test for two hours and I needed something to pass the time.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Thus, with Favorite Son, we really hit the age of Voyager's Fun With DNA mindset. Need to do something wacky with the characters that lets the make-up people come up with something new and different with the old familiar styles? DNA did it!

To paraphrase Morbo, 'DNA does not work that way! Good night!'

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I plan to keep this up over the course of the show so the next update on this will be in my season 3 round-up in about a week. Once I am finished I will be able to determine who I believe to be Voyager's best and worst writers.

Despite the shit Brannon gets from fans overall he was one of the better writers on VOY. I thought Jeri Taylor(Coda, Resolutions, Nothing Human), Kenneth Biller(Virtuouso, Q and the Grey) and Lisa Klink(Sacred Ground, Innocence, Favorite Son, Blood Fever) were the worst and I always dreaded to see their names attached to an episode. I wasn't too crazy about Rob Doherty(Vis a Vis), Michael Taylor(The Disease, Once Upon a Time) or Bryan Fuller(Course: Oblivion, Spirit Folk, Fury, Gravity) either. Nick Sagan's stint was underwhelming as well, I thought. Also Andre Bormanis wasn't that great either. The only episode he wrote that I liked was "Imperfection".

Menosky was hit or miss. When he worked with Brannon on the two parters it was usually good but then he wrote The Thaw, The Fight, False Profits not to mention on TNG stuff like Emergence and Masks.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I plan to keep this up over the course of the show so the next update on this will be in my season 3 round-up in about a week. Once I am finished I will be able to determine who I believe to be Voyager's best and worst writers.

Despite the shit Brannon gets from fans overall he was one of the better writers on VOY. I thought Jeri Taylor(Coda, Resolutions, Nothing Human), Kenneth Biller(Virtuouso, Q and the Grey) and Lisa Klink(Sacred Ground, Innocence, Favorite Son, Blood Fever) were the worst and I always dreaded to see their names attached to an episode. I wasn't too crazy about Rob Doherty(Vis a Vis), Michael Taylor(The Disease, Once Upon a Time) or Bryan Fuller(Course: Oblivion, Spirit Folk, Fury, Gravity) either. Nick Sagan's stint was underwhelming as well, I thought. Also Andre Bormanis wasn't that great either. The only episode he wrote that I liked was "Imperfection".

Menosky was hit or miss. When he worked with Brannon on the two parters it was usually good but then he wrote The Thaw, The Fight, False Profits not to mention on TNG stuff like Emergence and Masks.

Haven't you pretty much named the entire writing Staff. Who did you like?

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Haven't you pretty much named the entire writing Staff. Who did you like?

I liked Brannon's work and some of Menosky's and Piller's.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It seems that Braga's best stuff was written with either Ron Moore or Joe Menosky, perhaps because they could rein in some of his stupider ideas. I think he was involved in some fantastic episodes over the years, but there is a clear drop-off around the fifth season of Voyager.

 

[Silvercrest]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Favourite Son (0)

or "Vampire Vixens from Venus!", as I like to call it.

(apologies to Calvin & Hobbes)

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Braga is currently my least favourite writer on the show and I'm not sure why. He did write some of my favourite TNG episode, and I am a fan of First Contact and the much maligned Generations, so I know that he is capable of being a good writer but most of his work on Voyager has left me unimpressed. I'm hoping that his teaming up with Menosky will help him recover in the third season and on.

Klink is in trouble though, she has a bunch of episodes in season three which will radically change her score, so she'll probably be below Braga come the season 3 recap.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Favourite Son (0)

You forgot one thing this episode re-proves to us: the universe hates Harry Kim.

Thus, with Favorite Son, we really hit the age of Voyager's Fun With DNA mindset. Need to do something wacky with the characters that lets the make-up people come up with something new and different with the old familiar styles? DNA did it!

To paraphrase Morbo, 'DNA does not work that way! Good night!'

Well put.

It seems that Braga's best stuff was written with either Ron Moore or Joe Menosky, perhaps because they could rein in some of his stupider ideas. I think he was involved in some fantastic episodes over the years, but there is a clear drop-off around the fifth season of Voyager.

Agreed. I think he definitely suffered from burnout, but I also think, like a lot of writers, he wrote best when he had someone to work with.

I seem to recall a Lisa Klink episode that I really liked, but I can't think which one it was.

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm not that surprised Brannon turned out so many poor efforts in Voyager, just look at all the season 7 TNG stinkers he was credited with!

• "Phantasms" - Absolutely nonsensical, Braga hopes that a load of interesting imagery will make up for a stupid story- it doesn't
• "Parallels"- Yes its good but its hardly that original (someone going into different parallel universes) and it made no sense whatsoever
• "Sub Rosa" (teleplay)- He was involved with Sub-Rosa, nuff said almost.
• "Eye of the Beholder" (story)- I like it but its not the most beloved TNG season 7 episode.
• "Genesis"- I'm really not a nitpicker when it comes to the scientific stuff but even I just thought this whole thing was absolutely ridiculous.
• "Emergence" (story)- Ugh, just awful
• "All Good Things..." (with Ronald D. Moore)- Good obviously but not THAT original and the technobabble aspect was offputting.

So yeah you could see Braga turning in crap before Voyager.

I also think you are way unfair on Lisa Klink, look at the list of episodes she wrote

• "Resistance" (teleplay) - not great..
• "Innocence" (teleplay) - it was a wacky concept but it was fun!
• "Remember" (teleplay) - I like it so do many others
• "Sacred Ground" (teleplay)- Liked it
• "Warlord" (teleplay)- Liked it
• "Blood Fever"- Liked it
• "Favorite Son"- Ok, it was horrible
• "Displaced" - It was filler but it was good filler!
• "Revulsion" (Season four)- quite good
• "Scientific Method" (teleplay) - excellent
• "Message in a Bottle" (teleplay)- much beloved Voyager episode
• "Retrospect" (teleplay, with Bryan Fuller)- Interesting rather deep episode
• "The Omega Directive" (teleplay)- another good episode.

Lisa Klink wrote only a couple of stinkers in my opinion, the rest were good-excellent.

 

[Lynx]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Favorite Son

I'm gonna go against the majority here and state that this episod isn't so bad as many think that it is.

Spooky and actually exciting here and there even if the whole plot about how Kim got the disease who made him imagine that he was a Taresian was a bit silly.

Due to some spooky and exciting scenes, I'll give it 3 points out of 5.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm not that surprised Brannon turned out so many poor efforts in Voyager, just look at all the season 7 TNG stinkers he was credited with!

• "Phantasms" - Absolutely nonsensical, Braga hopes that a load of interesting imagery will make up for a stupid story- it doesn't
• "Parallels"- Yes its good but its hardly that original (someone going into different parallel universes) and it made no sense whatsoever
• "Sub Rosa" (teleplay)- He was involved with Sub-Rosa, nuff said almost.
• "Eye of the Beholder" (story)- I like it but its not the most beloved TNG season 7 episode.
• "Genesis"- I'm really not a nitpicker when it comes to the scientific stuff but even I just thought this whole thing was absolutely ridiculous.
• "Emergence" (story)- Ugh, just awful
• "All Good Things..." (with Ronald D. Moore)- Good obviously but not THAT original and the technobabble aspect was offputting.

So yeah you could see Braga turning in crap before Voyager.

I wouldn't blame him for Sub Rosa - he was probably lumped with it as a staff writer, and had to try and do his best with a woeful story. It's not exactly typical Braga material.

I don't mind the rest, and All Good Things is brilliant. They might not all be classics, but he was bursting with ideas that probably needed more attention than they could be given, as Piller and Taylor were busy working on Voyager. Probably TNG was missing an experienced hand to give the show their undivided attention in the last season.

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

You a season 7 apologist or summink??

 

[Michael]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Jaespol, how exactly were Parallels and All Good Things ... not original ideas?

 

[Jaespol]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Maybe it was original at the time but still my point stands, a lot of Braga's season 7 work was crapola.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

You a season 7 apologist or summink??

Apologist? It was a season of a TV show, not a war crime.

I think the overall quality wasn't as good as the previous season, but the episodes you singled out aren't bad. Apart from Sub Rosa, they are all better than the likes of Descent II, Liasons, Interface, Forces of Nature, Bloodlines, and the shining turd in the pipe, Masks.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm not that surprised Brannon turned out so many poor efforts in Voyager, just look at all the season 7 TNG stinkers he was credited with!

"Phantasms" - Absolutely nonsensical, Braga hopes that a load of interesting imagery will make up for a stupid story- it doesn't

You're right in that it is an episode based around surreal imagery with a stupid story framed around it, but I'm a fan of surreal imagery and I felt the episode handled it well enough. Hardly stellar but I watched some of these TNG episodes before my Voyager trip and I remembered enjoying it.

"Parallels"- Yes its good but its hardly that original (someone going into different parallel universes) and it made no sense whatsoever

I've always thought this was one of season 7's rare gems, and it gave Worf something to do other than growl and try to shoot things.

"Sub Rosa" (teleplay)- He was involved with Sub-Rosa, nuff said almost.

While Tomalak may be right that this was an episode forced upon Braga, it still doesn't excuse it. A good script can save a terrible idea, and it still doesn't excuse this:

I did fall asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter in my grandmother's journal. She wrote very detailed descriptions about her experiences with Ronin.

What the fuck, Braga?!!

"Eye of the Beholder" (story)- I like it but its not the most beloved TNG season 7 episode.

Agreed, this one has a bad reputation, and while I'm not a fan of the Worf/Troi relationship I thought the episode was okay for what it was.

"Genesis"- I'm really not a nitpicker when it comes to the scientific stuff but even I just thought this whole thing was absolutely ridiculous.

Not his finest hour, its true.

"Emergence" (story)- Ugh, just awful

I've not seen the episode in a long time and there is a reason why.

"All Good Things..." (with Ronald D. Moore)- Good obviously but not THAT original and the technobabble aspect was offputting.So yeah you could see Braga turning in crap before Voyager.

The technobabble is the only thing holding this episode back, but it was a great finale otherwise. It was probably the perfect way to end TNG.

I also think you are way unfair on Lisa Klink, look at the list of episodes she wrote

"Resistance" (teleplay) - not great..

I enjoyed Resistance a great deal, her strongest episode so far.

"Innocence" (teleplay) - it was a wacky concept but it was fun!

Not much happened and the aliens were needlessly hostile.

"Remember" (teleplay) - I like it so do many others

I'm not getting into this argument again.

"Sacred Ground" (teleplay)- Liked it
"Warlord" (teleplay)- Liked it

Didn't I just do this yesterday?

"Blood Fever"- Liked it

Fun but not particularly deep, her best from this season so far.

"Favorite Son"- Ok, it was horrible

Yes. Yes it was.

"Displaced" - It was filler but it was good filler!
"Revulsion" (Season four)- quite good
"Scientific Method" (teleplay) - excellent
"Message in a Bottle" (teleplay)- much beloved Voyager episode
"Retrospect" (teleplay, with Bryan Fuller)- Interesting rather deep episode
"The Omega Directive" (teleplay)- another good episode.

I can't really comment, but I do remember enjoying Message in a Bottle, it was one of my favourite Voyager episodes when I was younger.