A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[StarryEyed]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Agreed, I find False Profits a terrible bore. The last thing VOY needed was a Ferengi episode, it wasn't funny and the crew was acting beyond stupid.

I disagree about the funny part. Exploitation begins at home!

I agree completely about the crew being stupid and incompetent. It was nothing though compared to how stupid the crew was in "Rascals" - my pick for the worst episode of ST-TNG by far. Maybe Ferengi have the ability to telepathically feeble-mind their opponents.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

False Profits is entertaining. I would give it **½ or ***.

 

[apenpaap]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I found False Profits pretty funny. Not as funny as m,ost DS9 Ferengi episodes (The Magnificent Ferengi still makes me laugh when I think of it, even though I saw it a couple of months ago), but still pretty funny. StarryEyed seems to have a point about Ferengi telepathically making people stupid though, as in many Ferengi episodes including this one, people act pretty dumb.

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I agree with the review about False Profits. Not a good episode at all, but that's mostly because other than a few exceptions on DS9, I don't like Ferengi episodes. This one seemed to be one of the worst.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I found False Profits pretty funny. Not as funny as m,ost DS9 Ferengi episodes (The Magnificent Ferengi still makes me laugh when I think of it, even though I saw it a couple of months ago), but still pretty funny. StarryEyed seems to have a point about Ferengi telepathically making people stupid though, as in many Ferengi episodes including this one, people act pretty dumb.

Ah, that must be why Betazoids can't read them. The stupid field overloads their brains.

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The Ferengi do seem to have an innate ability to drag people down to their level. On the other hand, maybe people always underestimate them - Quark, Rom and Nog were incredibly resourceful.

 

[Lynx]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"The Chute"

I'm a bit unsure what to think of this episode. The story is good but it's too melodramatic for my taste and nothing is happening most of the time. Still, a good episode.

I'll give it 3 points out of 5.

 

[Frazzled]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

"The Chute"

I'm a bit unsure what to think of this episode. The story is good but it's too melodramatic for my taste and nothing is happening most of the time. Still, a good episode.

I'll give it 3 points out of 5.

On TNG they always go on and on about not sending the Captain on dangerous away missions - starfleet policy. So why oh why oh why when Voyager is stuck where it couldn't just get replacement senior staff is the Captain the one to go first and whizz down that chute into who knows what to get her crew members back? Any competent phaser wielding person could've gone.

That's something that happens a lot in Voyager I've noticed - the very senior staff go off together into dangerous places. Pretty stoopid.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Remember (*½)

What is worse than an episode which could have been done on TNG? How about an episode which was already done on TNG? Okay, that's not entirely fair, only the first half was a copy of Violations, the second half was its own story. My big problem with this episode is the first half which I feel is entirely unneeded and seems to just be there to fill time. Once you get to the second half of the story it gets better.

Even still, the second half suffers from some major problems, the biggest of which is that we never get to see how the Regressives live so it is hard to judge them. For all we know the propaganda could be true, they could be unruly and trying to bring down normal society, the episode just wants us to side with B'Elanna unquestionably. Or maybe the memories were distorted, they did come from a woman on the brink of death after all.

The entire episode hinges on a plea to emotion rather than rational thought based on evidence, that is not how an exploration of societal issues should be handled. There is a good story in here somewhere, but it is hidden behind the gimmick of telepathic memories which take up most of the story. And even though Roxann Dawson is on screen for most of the episode, there is no character exploration of B'Elanna because most of the time she is playing someone else. This episode was TNG fare, and it wasn't even good TNG fare.

Ah well, I'll probably forget it again by next month.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'll flatly admit that I had to look this episode up because I didn't remember it, but I did once I looked it up, unfortunately.

This episode has so many problems that I think anything over a half-star is being too generous. It's not so bad it's unwatchable, so much as it is boring. Your suggestion for ditching the first half 'mystery' would have helped, but ultimately as you point out the emotional argument is the wrong way to approach social issues - at least without the counterpoint of rational thought.

Interestingly, the Memory Alpha article mentions this:

Jeri Taylor stated that both this episode and the previous one ("False Profits") were examples of episodes which "didn't work". (Star Trek: Voyager - A Vision of the Future)

How interesting.

 

[Lynx]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^^
I have to disagree here. I like "Remember". A thought-provoking and well-written story about genocide and the falsification of history. I also think that it's one of Dawson's best performances, even if she's not really B'Elanna in this episode. A good and exciting episode.

I'll give it 4 points out of 5.

As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?

 

[StarryEyed]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I'm with Lynx on this one. I found the episode interesting and powerful.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

YMMV, of course, Lynx and StarryEyed. It just bored me because it didn't offer anything new. With the high-concept premise of VGR in particular, I wanted new and different.

As to this--

As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?

A valid question. There weren't even her much-maligned arcs present here. I've often wondered when the producers admit that something 'didn't work' if it isn't their tails-tucked way of just admitting that a chunk of the fans didn't like it?

 

[Tomalak]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?

A valid question. There weren't even her much-maligned arcs present here. I've often wondered when the producers admit that something 'didn't work' if it isn't their tails-tucked way of just admitting that a chunk of the fans didn't like it?

Nah, she's just admitting it was a weak episode, which it undoubtedly was. The problem with these sorts of episodes is that they have to be interesting and entertaining in their own right, and have some meaning for our characters. When they work, like "The Inner Light", or I suppose "Far Beyond The Stars", they can be fantastic. I just don't think "Remember" succeeded on either front.

Incidentally, I just saw on Wiki that Jeri Taylor is the mother of Alexander Enberg, AKA: Ensign Vorik. I never knew that.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It's been a long time since I watched most of the third season episodes, but I don't recall disliking this episode, really. Mostly for the ending - the woman isn't asking for forgiveness, just asking that someone knows and the truth doesn't die with her.

Though I'll agree that for an episode focused on B'Elanna, it doesn't really seem to care about the fact that it is focused on her - it could just as easily been Janeway, Kes, or even one of the male characters there.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Kes might have even made more sense, given her telepathy. However, they could have tied it to something B'Elanna felt guilt over. The dreadnought missile perhaps?

 

[Octavia]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I liked "Remember" too, but I hated "False Prophets". I just can't stand the Ferengi, in any way, shape or form. To me, even "Threshold" is infinitely better than "FP".

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I may have gone a little easy on Remember because I had a long day so I wasn't sure if it was the episode which was putting me to sleep or the four hours of driving. But I'm certainly not going to watch it again to make sure.

My main problem is that it didn't explore the issue of a falsified version of history because it got so caught up in the telepathic crap. This doesn't feel like an issue episode, it feels like a gimmick episode and the gimmick was stolen from an episode of TNG.

Like I said in my review, if you are going to explore an issue like a society covering up genocide then you need to base that on evidence and reasoned argument. Emotion is good when used right, but using it as the entire basis for judging an entire race of people is wrong. If the episode had pointed this out and B'Elanna had used her experience as a starting point to look for evidence of the genocide then it would have been okay, but instead the episode threw its support behind B'Elanna and her unsubstantiated claims. B'Elanna is right because the writers wanted her to be right, and that just isn't good enough for me.

One other problem I had with the ending is how coldly Janeway seemed to treat the aliens (I can't remember their names) after B'Elanna tells her what happened. Does this mean that I should act coldly to the Japanese because of what they did during WW2, even though most Japanese people weren't even alive back then? The Japanese fail to accept some of the atrocities they committed during the war, but I don't see everyone giving them the cold shoulder, nor should we.

As I also said, the episode doesn't show us what life was like for these Regressives, we are just led to believe that they weren't really a threat to society. I don't agree with the death penalty, but I could understand why some societies would use it if there was extremist groups trying to undermine society. The episode ignores this whole issue completely, we're just left to guess.

Besides, what's wrong with killing off all the conservatives so that society can move on and be more progressive? I've been advocating this policy for years.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

My main problem is that it didn't explore the issue of a falsified version of history because it got so caught up in the telepathic crap. This doesn't feel like an issue episode, it feels like a gimmick episode and the gimmick was stolen from an episode of TNG.

It definitely wouldn't pass the 'Gunsmoke' test...

Like I said in my review, if you are going to explore an issue like a society covering up genocide then you need to base that on evidence and reasoned argument. Emotion is good when used right, but using it as the entire basis for judging an entire race of people is wrong. If the episode had pointed this out and B'Elanna had used her experience as a starting point to look for evidence of the genocide then it would have been okay, but instead the episode threw its support behind B'Elanna and her unsubstantiated claims. B'Elanna is right because the writers wanted her to be right, and that just isn't good enough for me.

Very well said.

 

[Lynx]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

As for Jeri Taylor, is she criticizing those episodes because she didn't write them herself?

A valid question. There weren't even her much-maligned arcs present here. I've often wondered when the producers admit that something 'didn't work' if it isn't their tails-tucked way of just admitting that a chunk of the fans didn't like it?

Nah, she's just admitting it was a weak episode, which it undoubtedly was. The problem with these sorts of episodes is that they have to be interesting and entertaining in their own right, and have some meaning for our characters. When they work, like "The Inner Light", or I suppose "Far Beyond The Stars", they can be fantastic. I just don't think "Remember" succeeded on either front.

Incidentally, I just saw on Wiki that Jeri Taylor is the mother of Alexander Enberg, AKA: Ensign Vorik. I never knew that.

Which explains why that character got so much screen time and almost became a regular as long as Taylor was one of those in charge.

Praetor wrote:

Kes might have even made more sense, given her telepathy. However, they could have tied it to something B'Elanna felt guilt over. The dreadnought missile perhaps?

You're right about that! It would have made more sense if Kes had been the main character in this episode. I never thought of that before.