A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think when you said 'more Kazons' you meant 'Vidiians.'

Oh yes, definitely more Vidiians too! I forgot about those guys. They were probably the most promising aliens Voyager met on the journey, I would have liked to see more of them. But I would also have liked to see more Kazon, only make them less Klingon and less stupid. (Oxymoron?)

Not at all. Some would say less Klingon and less stupid go hand in hand.

I think the real mistake with the Kazon was trying to pretend they were anything but a thinly disguised desire to have a Delta Quadrant equivalent of Klingons. Had the producers operated aware of the fact they were copying themselves, we might have had a more unique and therefore interesting race.

Yay! If you quit, I wouldn't get to be scared by how much we agree anymore. Plus, you're saving me from doing all this, even though I guess I don't qualify as a hater.

According to that thread I don't either. I'm really upset about the whole thing, my whole thread has been a lie.

It's okay, I'll still call you a hater if you want, hater. Why you got to be such a hater all the time, hater?

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It's okay, I'll still call you a hater if you want, hater. Why you got to be such a hater all the time, hater?

A Voyager producer killed my entire family in a big explosion. But maybe I'm not angry at him, maybe I'm really angry at myself for being a coward and I should forgive him?

Hang on, that's ridiculous.

Anyway, that's the real reason why I hate Voyager.

(Yes, I have been drinking.)

 

[JustKate]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

You did see that I agree to call you a hater if you really want me to, right? I don't want to kill your dream.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It's okay, I'll still call you a hater if you want, hater. Why you got to be such a hater all the time, hater?

A Voyager producer killed my entire family in a big explosion. But maybe I'm not angry at him, maybe I'm really angry at myself for being a coward and I should forgive him?

Hang on, that's ridiculous.

Anyway, that's the real reason why I hate Voyager.

(Yes, I have been drinking.)

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

You did see that I agree to call you a hater if you really want me to, right? I don't want to kill your dream.

Then my family didn't die in vain. Huzzah!

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Huzzah!

 

[tomalak301]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen,

You just made me love this thread even more, and it's probably the best thread this forum has seen in the 6 years I've been here. Yeah you have a lot of time on your hands, but great read. Looking forward to how it progresses, even though I wonder if you should consider making a trend line for DS9 and TNG. I'm very much intrigued now.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Yeah you have a lot of time on your hands, but great read.

The worldwide economic crisis does have some positives, I suppose.

Looking forward to how it progresses, even though I wonder if you should consider making a trend line for DS9 and TNG. I'm very much intrigued now.

That would be tricky. When I first bought the DS9 DVDs I ranked every episode out of ten because I'm obsessive and wanted to rank each season to find out which was my favourite. I did the same thing when I bought TNG a year later. I wrote all the details down on a piece of paper which I found two months ago when organising stuff I found in a box. Then I threw the paper out.

I can only roughly remember some of the season scores, I have no chance of remembering the individual episode scores. I can rank the episodes again now but it has been some years since I have seen either show so it wont be entirely accurate.

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

According to that other thread I don't qualify either. I'm really upset about the whole thing, my whole thread has been a lie.

The word is out! You're a lover, not a hater. Nyahh nyahh!

Yes, I've been drinking too.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

According to that other thread I don't qualify either. I'm really upset about the whole thing, my whole thread has been a lie.

The word is out! You're a lover, not a hater. Nyahh nyahh!

Voyager owns lives. Some of the most active posters on this board (not referring to GodBen here, actually) claim to dislike Voyager, yet they keep coming back here again and again.

Don't hate - appreciate. That's what I'll say.

 

[TheGodBen]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The word is out! You're a lover, not a hater. Nyahh nyahh!

I'm suffering an identity crisis here, I'm so confused!

It is a rainy Saturday afternoon, so I took 20 minutes to do up these graphs for the first seasons of TNG and DS9 as a comparison for Voyager.

TNG Season 1:

Season average is 4.48, so either my memory is more forgiving of the crap this season provided or I remembered the number wrong. Encounter at Farpoint is counted as one episode. A below average season; 6 episodes above average, 13 episodes below average and 6 stuck in the middle. Trend line shows an obvious upwards direction.

DS9 Season 1:

Season average is 5.632, so my memory was pretty good for this one. Emissary is counted as one episode. A slightly above average season: 9 episodes above average, 6 episodes below average and 4 in the middle. Trend line goes up.

Bear in mind, I haven't seen most of those TNG episodes in over 3 years and most of those DS9 episodes in just less than 3 years.

 

[BolianAuthor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I think when you said 'more Kazons' you meant 'Vidiians.'

Oh yes, definitely more Vidiians too! I forgot about those guys. They were probably the most promising aliens Voyager met on the journey, I would have liked to see more of them. But I would also have liked to see more Kazon, only make them less Klingon and less stupid. (Oxymoron?)

Not at all. Some would say less Klingon and less stupid go hand in hand.

I think the real mistake with the Kazon was trying to pretend they were anything but a thinly disguised desire to have a Delta Quadrant equivalent of Klingons. Had the producers operated aware of the fact they were copying themselves, we might have had a more unique and therefore interesting race.

Yay! If you quit, I wouldn't get to be scared by how much we agree anymore. Plus, you're saving me from doing all this, even though I guess I don't qualify as a hater.

According to that thread I don't either. I'm really upset about the whole thing, my whole thread has been a lie.

It's okay, I'll still call you a hater if you want, hater. Why you got to be such a hater all the time, hater?

Well, for me, the whole problem with the Kazon, was their FAR inferior tech, compared to Voyager... I mean, in "Caretaker", the Kazon marvel at VOY's replication technology... so how can these people possibly ever pose a major threat to VOY?

 

[Mareika]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

It was very interesting for me to read all these posts- thank you GodBen and all the others.
Maybe, all critism about the Kazon (I liked them), the Borg and all the other things are right. And yes, I also think they ruin the Borg and there are many episodes who didn`t work.
But -I`m a woman and I very like the crew and their interaction. I very like every single character more then the TNG characters. I like the humor in Voyager. I like J/C.
Because of all these things Voyager became my fav Trek series.

But GodBen- your comments about the episodes are great to read. Please continue. Thanks.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Well, for me, the whole problem with the Kazon, was their FAR inferior tech, compared to Voyager... I mean, in "Caretaker", the Kazon marvel at VOY's replication technology... so how can these people possibly ever pose a major threat to VOY?

Well, that's true too. It's possible that the fact that their tech was 'inherited' from the Trabe allowed them a certain lack of technical prowess that in turn allowed them to marvel at technology that's really not that far past their own, although I admit even that's a stretch and a total retcon on my part.

Since they didn't have transporters that I can remember, and it seems like transporters and replicators don't go hand in hand, it's possible that's one area the Trabe just never developed, or were unable to develop. Clearly, the Kazon-Nistrim were meant to be a bit more 'civilized' than, say, the Kazon-Ogla, so that might account for the Nistrim being more of a threat than the Ogla. (I'd say that was a revision on the part of the producers, having realized exactly what you pointed out.)

But even so, they're still knockoff Klingons.

 

[Gary7]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I couldn't stand the Kazon. "Weak Klingons" is what comes to mind, in addition to shriveled tree branches / caramelized dreadlocks sticking out of their heads. What a ridiculous looking race!

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Those first Kazon wigs had dried pigs' ears sewn into them. Seriously.

 

[Gary7]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Those first Karzon wigs had dried pigs' ears sewn into them. Seriously.

I see what you mean.

 

[Praetor]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

 

[kimc]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Those first Kazon wigs had dried pigs' ears sewn into them. Seriously.

My dog loves those things. I guess that explains why the Kazons didn't have dogs - they'd be trying to chomp on their heads all the time.

 

[Tachyon]

Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Those first Kazon wigs had dried pigs' ears sewn into them. Seriously.

Didn't they ditch the pig ears after Caretaker to make the wigs lighter for the actors to wear?