Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
MESTEEEMA!!
I reject your normality and substitute my own.
MESTEEEMA!!
A Semi-Hater Revisits Voyager
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
The Gift (***)
I must admit, Star Trek left a bad taste in my mouth, so coming back to an episode of Voyager which doesn't move at a million miles a second in order to cover up its lapses in plot and logic is nice. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm thankful for Voyager.
Of course this episode isn't perfect, I think that Kes's powers came about far too quickly after 3 seasons of hardly any development, and now knowing the behind the scenes details of her exit (which I had no clue about when I first watched it) it is almost painful to imagine what Jennifer Lien must have been thinking during the crying scene with Janeway. It might have made a nice scene had it not been for the fact that she was booted from the show for someone who could better fill out a cat-suit.
If they had to boot Kes from the show then I don't think this is such a bad way of doing it. When Kes started talking about space and thought being one it brought back memories of the Traveller from TNG and him guiding Wesley to join him, and it made me wonder if Kes was on a similar journey. It would have been nicer to develop this over a few more episodes though, as it is things are left very vague.
My first impressions of Seven have not been favourable, she is a very annoying character. Jeri Ryan seems to think that emotions are conveyed through shouting, she has so far brought no sense of subtlety to the role. And to be perfectly frank she doesn't even act like a Borg, she acts like a child demanding a new toy, which I suppose is sort of in-character considering she was assimilated as a child, but it is still annoying to my ears.
Shuttles Lost: 5
I'm feeling generous so I'm going to give Voyager a gift of my own and allow it to have one final shuttle before I start deducting points. But if they lose this one then that will be it, so they had better make it last.
The Gift (***)
I must admit, Star Trek left a bad taste in my mouth, so coming back to an episode of Voyager which doesn't move at a million miles a second in order to cover up its lapses in plot and logic is nice. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm thankful for Voyager.
Of course this episode isn't perfect, I think that Kes's powers came about far too quickly after 3 seasons of hardly any development, and now knowing the behind the scenes details of her exit (which I had no clue about when I first watched it) it is almost painful to imagine what Jennifer Lien must have been thinking during the crying scene with Janeway. It might have made a nice scene had it not been for the fact that she was booted from the show for someone who could better fill out a cat-suit.
If they had to boot Kes from the show then I don't think this is such a bad way of doing it. When Kes started talking about space and thought being one it brought back memories of the Traveller from TNG and him guiding Wesley to join him, and it made me wonder if Kes was on a similar journey. It would have been nicer to develop this over a few more episodes though, as it is things are left very vague.
My first impressions of Seven have not been favourable, she is a very annoying character. Jeri Ryan seems to think that emotions are conveyed through shouting, she has so far brought no sense of subtlety to the role. And to be perfectly frank she doesn't even act like a Borg, she acts like a child demanding a new toy, which I suppose is sort of in-character considering she was assimilated as a child, but it is still annoying to my ears.
Shuttles Lost: 5
I'm feeling generous so I'm going to give Voyager a gift of my own and allow it to have one final shuttle before I start deducting points. But if they lose this one then that will be it, so they had better make it last.
Jaespol
Captain
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Ah yes, The Gift.
First of all, I was equally put off by Jeri Ryan's portrayal of a Borg but I believe that it may have been the director's fault here. She is a great actress as we see from later episodes and eventually became my favourite Star Trek character of all despite Voyager not being my favourite series. So while Seven did get off to a shaky start, she really made up for it later on.
As for Kes leaving, it was incredibly sad she had to leave especially as I had really warmed to her character since "Before and After" and thought she looked beautiful. I thought it was a good send off overall if a bit aprupt, it could have been handled better but certainly beats how they got rid of Jadzia and Tasha.
The goodbye scene with Janeway was wonderful and you could tell the emotions were real, Lien puts her best "performance" in here but you can tell its real emotion- everything from the tears welling up in her eyes and the red welts under her eyes.
I honestly feel I would have enjoyed Voyager more if they had kept Kes, the producers say it was because they had reached an impasse which I don't believe personally...especially considering Kenneth Biller says on the DVD that Voyager lost a lot of potential good science fiction episodes with the loss Kes.
As for the episode...I don't know how to explain it but this episode seems a bit like a depressing Sunday to me - like they've just had a huge blowout the night before (Scorpion) and the next day its all very dull and depressing.
But you can't deny that Kes ascending and sending them 9500 lightyears away was a pretty impactful scene.
Ah yes, The Gift.
First of all, I was equally put off by Jeri Ryan's portrayal of a Borg but I believe that it may have been the director's fault here. She is a great actress as we see from later episodes and eventually became my favourite Star Trek character of all despite Voyager not being my favourite series. So while Seven did get off to a shaky start, she really made up for it later on.
As for Kes leaving, it was incredibly sad she had to leave especially as I had really warmed to her character since "Before and After" and thought she looked beautiful. I thought it was a good send off overall if a bit aprupt, it could have been handled better but certainly beats how they got rid of Jadzia and Tasha.
The goodbye scene with Janeway was wonderful and you could tell the emotions were real, Lien puts her best "performance" in here but you can tell its real emotion- everything from the tears welling up in her eyes and the red welts under her eyes.
I honestly feel I would have enjoyed Voyager more if they had kept Kes, the producers say it was because they had reached an impasse which I don't believe personally...especially considering Kenneth Biller says on the DVD that Voyager lost a lot of potential good science fiction episodes with the loss Kes.
As for the episode...I don't know how to explain it but this episode seems a bit like a depressing Sunday to me - like they've just had a huge blowout the night before (Scorpion) and the next day its all very dull and depressing.
But you can't deny that Kes ascending and sending them 9500 lightyears away was a pretty impactful scene.
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I SO want to add this quote to my sig.
I must admit, Star Trek left a bad taste in my mouth, so coming back to an episode of Voyager which doesn't move at a million miles a second in order to cover up its lapses in plot and logic is nice. I never thought I'd say this, but I'm thankful for Voyager.
I SO want to add this quote to my sig.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Are you saying I have your permission to use it? I wouldn't want to do it without that.
^ I'll join you.
Are you saying I have your permission to use it? I wouldn't want to do it without that.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Thanks.
For some strange reason I have this urge to go post in the DS9 forum.
Feel free.
Thanks.
(Boy am I going regret this is the morning.
For some strange reason I have this urge to go post in the DS9 forum.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I was going to see the Star Trek film this evening but instead am waiting 'til tomorrow afternoon. I didn't click the spoiler buttons, but... yikes. I'm a little scared now that GodBen is embracing Voyager with open arms.
IMO, "The Gift" does a pretty good job shoehorning specific objectives into a plot to make an episode, all things considered. It has flaws, and Kes's development really should have been better spread out, but it somehow hangs together fairly well in and of itself and makes for a decent 45 minutes of television. I also think that Jeri was either not yet cofortable in her role or was misdirected here - I could easily see the director emphasizing child-like qualities as being important to her performance.
I was going to see the Star Trek film this evening but instead am waiting 'til tomorrow afternoon. I didn't click the spoiler buttons, but... yikes. I'm a little scared now that GodBen is embracing Voyager with open arms.
IMO, "The Gift" does a pretty good job shoehorning specific objectives into a plot to make an episode, all things considered. It has flaws, and Kes's development really should have been better spread out, but it somehow hangs together fairly well in and of itself and makes for a decent 45 minutes of television. I also think that Jeri was either not yet cofortable in her role or was misdirected here - I could easily see the director emphasizing child-like qualities as being important to her performance.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts.
I know, I'm repeating myself, but I really hope you'll enjoy it! Don't have too high expectations. I think mine were a little too high, which is why I felt a little let down after the first viewing. But upon watching it the second time (this time in its original English version) I liked it much more. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I still have problems with some aspects of the movie, but in the end it really is just a lot of fun. As I said earlier, it's nothing deep, but it's quite in the spirit of TOS, I'd say.I was going to see the Star Trek film this evening but instead am waiting 'til tomorrow afternoon. I didn't click the spoiler buttons, but... yikes. I'm a little scared now that GodBen is embracing Voyager with open arms.
I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
The Gift
When I first watched this episode I didn't understand why Kes was leaving, the only explanation I could think of was that they were going to re-visit her journey in multiple future episodes. Well, we all know they didn't, and the only episode she was featured in later in season 7 was a total insult. But I think the episode itself was good, also reminded me of Wesley's journey in TNG, and I think Jennifer Lien's performance was a memorable one. I felt Janeway's gratitude to Kes when she threw them safely beyond Borg space. All in all, a nice farewell I thought.
The Gift
When I first watched this episode I didn't understand why Kes was leaving, the only explanation I could think of was that they were going to re-visit her journey in multiple future episodes. Well, we all know they didn't, and the only episode she was featured in later in season 7 was a total insult. But I think the episode itself was good, also reminded me of Wesley's journey in TNG, and I think Jennifer Lien's performance was a memorable one. I felt Janeway's gratitude to Kes when she threw them safely beyond Borg space. All in all, a nice farewell I thought.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I love The Gift. So I'm throwing ****½ at it.
And welcome to the dark side, GodBen! *evil laugh*
And my dear, you know next to nothing about the people you are talking with on internet. At least when I am concerned. So I wouldn't make any assumptions on them based on few posts on Trek board or to rank their "normality" based on this place. Let the fun commence.
I love The Gift. So I'm throwing ****½ at it.
And welcome to the dark side, GodBen! *evil laugh*
And my dear, you know next to nothing about the people you are talking with on internet. At least when I am concerned. So I wouldn't make any assumptions on them based on few posts on Trek board or to rank their "normality" based on this place.
Let the fun commence.
Jaespol
Captain
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
I hate "The Gift"!
When I watched that episode, it was one of the few times I came really close to throwing out my TV out of the window. Only sheer greed (TV's are expensive) and some concern for the people on the street below prevented me from doing that.
The episode is just bad, full of flaws and obviously written in a hurry with the one and only purpose to get rid of one of the main characters as soon as possible. The whole story is ridiculous, thin and unconvincing and should have been thrown in a trashcan together with the "writer" who wrote it.
After suffering about 45 minutes of this horrible episode, I stopped watching Voyager. I didn't watch a single episode for two years (except the seasons 1-3 episodes which I had on tape). I did change that decision two years later and watched the season 4-5 episodes I had missed on tapes I borrowed to catch up with everything I missed. That was another mistake which I realized when a certain episode was aired in season 6 which made me quit definitely.
As for "The Gift", I give this pathetic excuse for a Voyager episode 0 points out of 5.
I hate "The Gift"!
When I watched that episode, it was one of the few times I came really close to throwing out my TV out of the window. Only sheer greed (TV's are expensive) and some concern for the people on the street below prevented me from doing that.
The episode is just bad, full of flaws and obviously written in a hurry with the one and only purpose to get rid of one of the main characters as soon as possible. The whole story is ridiculous, thin and unconvincing and should have been thrown in a trashcan together with the "writer" who wrote it.
After suffering about 45 minutes of this horrible episode, I stopped watching Voyager. I didn't watch a single episode for two years (except the seasons 1-3 episodes which I had on tape). I did change that decision two years later and watched the season 4-5 episodes I had missed on tapes I borrowed to catch up with everything I missed. That was another mistake which I realized when a certain episode was aired in season 6 which made me quit definitely.
As for "The Gift", I give this pathetic excuse for a Voyager episode 0 points out of 5.
Jaespol
Captain
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
You say that every time....I don't see how its "sheer greed" to not want to throw your tv out the window.
I hate "The Gift"!
When I watched that episode, it was one of the few times I came really close to throwing out my TV out of the window. Only sheer greed (TV's are expensive) and some concern for the people on the street below prevented me from doing that.
You say that every time....I don't see how its "sheer greed" to not want to throw your tv out the window.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
Only thing I didn't really like in "The Gift" was the "OMG Kes must leave the ship NOW! Or it's gonna BLOW!!!" ending. There was no need for that silly manufactured danger (something that happens far to often in Star Trek...).
Only thing I didn't really like in "The Gift" was the "OMG Kes must leave the ship NOW! Or it's gonna BLOW!!!" ending. There was no need for that silly manufactured danger (something that happens far to often in Star Trek...).
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
It never bothered me before, but now that you mention it... it was kind of sudden in a way. Nevertheless, I think The Gift was great farewell for the character. It did Kes some justice. It could have been worse. Just think about how Tasha Yar was booted.
It never bothered me before, but now that you mention it... it was kind of sudden in a way. Nevertheless, I think The Gift was great farewell for the character. It did Kes some justice. It could have been worse. Just think about how Tasha Yar was booted.
Jaespol
Captain
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager
The difference with Tasha Yar I guess was that she quit after one season so she didn't necessarily deserve the send of someone who was fired for no reason after 3 years of service did? And I'd take "Yesterday's Enterprise" over "Fury" any day!
One thing was silly in this episode was when Kes was walk down the corridors with Janeway with all the corridors exploding and Tuvok gives a mind meld, you can tell Lien is thinking "this is so stupid, just let me go already."
The difference with Tasha Yar I guess was that she quit after one season so she didn't necessarily deserve the send of someone who was fired for no reason after 3 years of service did? And I'd take "Yesterday's Enterprise" over "Fury" any day!
One thing was silly in this episode was when Kes was walk down the corridors with Janeway with all the corridors exploding and Tuvok gives a mind meld, you can tell Lien is thinking "this is so stupid, just let me go already."
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