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A second viewing of Into Darkness

ConRefit79

Captain
Captain
I haven't been a fan of the new Star Trek movies for many reasons. But I recently lost someone close who had given me an Into Darkness BluRay last Christmas. And last night I decided to open it and watch the film for the second time.

If I look at this as a re-imagined Star Trek, like Moore's BSG, I have to admit the film is not as awful as I thought when I saw it in 2013. It has a pretty good story that is relevant to recent events. A major lesson is to not let a barbaric act against us, turn us into barbarians. There are a number of smaller lessons to, but I won't go into them here. The story like most modern big budget films moves at a frantic pace. Guess I'm getting old, cause I would like a little time to absorb one major event before jumping to the next. But that is a big budget summer block buster failing in general.

The effects are good. Of course they should be for a film with such a large budget. And for some reason, I prefer it on the small screen. Guess It's easier to take it all in.

The acting itself was good. But I still don't like the Tom Cruz Kirk of NuTrek. And the Kirk, Spock and Uhura thing comes off as juvenile as well. Hopefully the next film will have greatly matured the characters. They still act far to young to be given the positions they hold.

I must say though, the rip off and twist on TWOK iconic moments does not sit well with me. For me, that ruined what otherwise may have been a good sequel. Not to mention a unique story with Khan. And, for the most part Khan seems like he could have been any character for this film. A section 31 23rd century augment would have been more fitting. Marcus was already breaking all the rules. Why stop there?

There were other things like the Mudd reference and McCoy delivering a baby Gorn. I know they are references for the fans, but they're a decade too early. Marcus finding the Botany Bay early seems plausible to me. And of course many things I could nit pick about physics. One thing I do question is, they claim they still have shields, but Vengeance is blasting huge holes into the ship. Do they not work like they do in Classic Trek?

I can see why many new fans, who never saw TWOK or TOS would enjoy this film. I'm not sure how older fans can just overlook the major problem I have with this film. But to each his own. I will see ST:Beyond. I sincerely hope they stop throwing out old references to the fans. And I hope Kirk has truly matured.
 
As a fan of the film, it's refreshing to see someone who isn't big on it at least recognize its message. Just the fact that you acknowledge it has one is nice.

To answer how a long-time fan of the franchise can overlook your big grievance (that it rips off TWOK moments) I can only say that it doesn't bother me at all. I don't hold TWOK in super-high regard, though, which probably contributes to my shrug. It's a decent flick but I genuinely prefer at least two other TOS films. Plus, I'm quite accustomed to the reimagining of classic stories gig going on at the cinema, and I tend to think Trek is ripe for plenty of that. I don't think it's in some unique position among big geek brands whereby none of its preexisting content should be remade, as many fans do.

The infamous Kirk/Spock reversal scene is too on-the-nose, sure. But I don't care much. The acting sells it.
 
Nice to see someone being critical of the film without coming across as a screaming banshee. :techman:
 
I am a TOS fan first and foremost, to the extent that most of the spin-offs aren't Star Trek to me.

And I enjoyed these new movies just fine. I think I've seen "Into Darkness" at least six times.

Kor
 
I could stand less continuity porn myself, so I would agree with that. Tribbles? I hope I never see one of those fuzzy miserable things again. ;)
 
STID has its good points of course. I will list some below

1. Robocop

2. The Vengeance - it's a nice design. Better than the Enterprise imo.

3. The usual good action and prettiness.

4. Kirk, and his disregard for the Prime Directive when lives are at stake.

5. Whoever is responsible for writing the first act of the film.

6. Benedict

7. Robocop's inexplicably British daughter.


Here are some things I didn't like:

1. A generic bad guy wanting revenge plot. Yawn.

2. A lame mystery element that bogs the movie down, especially on repeat viewings.

3. A very weak ending. There is no real build up, I was just waiting around for the climax.

4. Someone accidentally spliced a parody of TWOK into the ending.

5. Uhura is annoying in this movie. Could she maybe not start a teen drama in the middle of every mission?

6. Old Spock. This is the definition of a shoehorned cameo.

7. The...um...flexible laws of physics & continuity.

8. Khan's general ineffectiveness. He set the land speed record for getting defeated.
 
Agreed with these, and with the OP, on most counts. Regarding the following, though...

There were other things like the Mudd reference and McCoy delivering a baby Gorn. I know they are references for the fans, but they're a decade too early. Marcus finding the Botany Bay early seems plausible to me. One thing I do question is, they claim they still have shields, but Vengeance is blasting huge holes into the ship. Do they not work like they do in Classic Trek?

These specific things were already established in the previous movie, basically. Things beyond 2233 AD can and do happen sooner (or later) in this timeline, including the UFP learning about the Vulcan-Romulan connection. And raised shields don't help all that much - when Sulu bumped into debris above Vulcan with raised shields, he badly scraped the Enterprise nacelle.

A generic bad guy wanting revenge plot. Yawn.

Now this I don't agree with - Khan and Marcus had interesting ambition and plausible plans unrelated to vengeance. Kirk just stopped them on the launch pad already.

I could and did tolerate the one insane vengeance movie, and that's out of the way now. As is the "two bad guys plot each other into a knot" plot. I just desperately hope that the third take will be about something completely different, at least as far as villains go. (And the obvious way to go would be a straightforward foe like Klingons or Borg or a new alien species of that ilk - these heroes ought to carry a story now without needing a complicated villain.)

Timo Saloniemi
 
Here are some things I didn't like:

1. A generic bad guy wanting revenge plot. Yawn.

Interestingly, I have come to see TWOK more and more in that way through critical examination over the years.

Kor
 
Here are some things I didn't like:

1. A generic bad guy wanting revenge plot. Yawn.

Interestingly, I have come to see TWOK more and more in that way through critical examination over the years.

Kor

But it worked well for TWOK. And for Trek films, the TWOK was the first. Many films have tried to recapture that and failed.

I've been rewatching Voyager lately. I found Anorex from The Year of Hell to be a more compelling villain than most of the film villains. It would be interesting see a Star Trek film where the villain redeems himself in the end.
 
5. Uhura is annoying in this movie. Could she maybe not start a teen drama in the middle of every mission?

Seriously? Have you ever watched 'teen dramas'?
Uhura ONCE complained and was concerned about the person she loves possibly being suicidal and she did that in the middle of ONE mission where him having a 'death wish' could put the lives of the whole away team at risk too. Yet, you call it teen drama and claim that apparently she does that in 'every mission' .

It still blows my mind how people keep complaining about Uhura and make hyperbolic assertions about her behavior like the one above, yet Kirk's being much much much worse with Spock in the whole movie doesn't even register as something annoying on anyone's radar. For me Uhura's feelings and motives made more sense, anyway, than kirk complaining because a guy that was still a stranger for him didn't get 'friendship', or him essentially complaining that spock did his job when he didn't lie about the mission.
Not to even mention that the thing you consider annoying for Uhura is, if anything, the very thing you guys like about Mccoy and his dynamic with Spock (and Kirk). The double standard is glaring.
 
Here are some things I didn't like:

1. A generic bad guy wanting revenge plot. Yawn.

Interestingly, I have come to see TWOK more and more in that way through critical examination over the years.

Kor

I enjoy both TWOK and INTO DARKNESS. To be honest, I prefer the latter more and more to the former. TWOK is an entertaining movie, but it is a "a generic bad guy wanting revenge" and the template for TREK movies ever since, unfortunately.
 
TWOK is an entertaining movie, but it is a "a generic bad guy wanting revenge" and the template for TREK movies ever since, unfortunately.

TWOK is one of my least favorite TOS films for that very reason. It casts a very long shadow, and is held as the gold standard of Trek films despite its many flaws.
Into Darkness is a better film and its biggest flaws are when it tries too hard to capture the "vibe" of TWOK.
 
TWOK is an entertaining movie, but it is a "a generic bad guy wanting revenge" and the template for TREK movies ever since, unfortunately.

TWOK is one of my least favorite TOS films for that very reason. It casts a very long shadow, and is held as the gold standard of Trek films despite its many flaws.
Into Darkness is a better film and its biggest flaws are when it tries too hard to capture the "vibe" of TWOK.
I have to agree with this.
Personally, I d not enjoy TWOK and find its impact upon future Trek works to be frustrating, at best.
 
only two? I think I've seen it 30 times now. It's the most rewatchable trek film ever. I never tire of it.
 
I very much disliked STID when I saw it in the theater. I've went back and rewatched it a few times since and my opinion hasn't changed. I can't get into it. For me, it's boring.

Here we have a convoluted, pandering story, with less likable versions of Kirk/Spock. Silly script elements are thrown in (magic blood, transwarp beaming) to make it easier for the script writers to advance the story between plot points.

When the diabolical head of Starfleet shows up in a mega space ship is when the movie really loses me. The dialog in that sequence is terrible, and it's all downhill from there. The low point is later in the film when Spock does his "Khaaaaaaan" scream. People literally laughed in the theater. I almost felt somewhat embarrassed for Quinto as an actor in that moment.

I think the only Trek film that's worse is the abysmal Nemesis.
 
5. Uhura is annoying in this movie. Could she maybe not start a teen drama in the middle of every mission?

Seriously? Have you ever watched 'teen dramas'?
Uhura ONCE complained and was concerned about the person she loves possibly being suicidal and she did that in the middle of ONE mission where him having a 'death wish' could put the lives of the whole away team at risk too. Yet, you call it teen drama and claim that apparently she does that in 'every mission' .

It still blows my mind how people keep complaining about Uhura and make hyperbolic assertions about her behavior like the one above, yet Kirk's being much much much worse with Spock in the whole movie doesn't even register as something annoying on anyone's radar. For me Uhura's feelings and motives made more sense, anyway, than kirk complaining because a guy that was still a stranger for him didn't get 'friendship', or him essentially complaining that spock did his job when he didn't lie about the mission.
Not to even mention that the thing you consider annoying for Uhura is, if anything, the very thing you guys like about Mccoy and his dynamic with Spock (and Kirk). The double standard is glaring.

It just doesn't work with Uhura for me. She has so little to actually do in STiD that her role was essentially reduced to just making angry faces at Spock.

When the diabolical head of Starfleet shows up in a mega space ship is when the movie really loses me. The dialog in that sequence is terrible, and it's all downhill from there.
Admiral Marcus's motivations make no sense & he tips over the edge into cartoony. The writers were definitely the weakest link.
The low point is later in the film when Spock does his "Khaaaaaaan" scream. People literally laughed in the theater. I almost felt somewhat embarrassed for Quinto as an actor in that moment.

The TWOK parody did undermine the dramatic ending a bit.
 
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