In City on the Edge of Forever, we see Roman structure like ruins off in the distance like the Roman ruins of today like the column laced temples. Could there be a connection on the Guardian Planet between the Romulans and Romans of Earths past and Nero knows this because it is rumored he goes there to go back in time. The reason I say this is that I think that Nero is actually the Emporer of Romes past and is a time traveler that now rules Romulas as Praetor and possibly lived on the Guardian Planet of the past. Any thoughts about the Structures and this theory of Nero because how would he know about the Guardian? Of course he might not be anything like I stated above but is just a Romulan Praetor that recieved his information about the guardian through spying.
A Question about Roman Ruins on Guardian Planet
- Thread starter General_Custer
- Start date
Hmm... To nitpick, the column style is pseudo-Roman (or pseudo-Greek) at best, as the spacing of the columns is too great to allow the construction of the structures from natural marble or similar primitive materials. I'd expect the columns to be made of a plastic-like substance, really. 
Also, the ruins are said to be 10,000 centuries old, which is a bit too much even for Earth's oldest architectural styles of that sort, and certainly too much for the Roman culture...
But the idea of a connection between a pseudo-Roman style of ancient ruins and the pseudo-Roman nature of the Romulans is of course sound as such. Perhaps this villain established his powerbase in the distant past, by adapting architecture from his own time (be that modern Romulan era, or the Rome of Emperor Nero).
Can one access the Guardian without having a starship? Well, Kirk, Spock and McCoy made the jump from Earth's past to the time planet's present easily enough. So Emperor Nero could have done something similar, the Guardian willing.
Timo Saloniemi
Also, the ruins are said to be 10,000 centuries old, which is a bit too much even for Earth's oldest architectural styles of that sort, and certainly too much for the Roman culture...
But the idea of a connection between a pseudo-Roman style of ancient ruins and the pseudo-Roman nature of the Romulans is of course sound as such. Perhaps this villain established his powerbase in the distant past, by adapting architecture from his own time (be that modern Romulan era, or the Rome of Emperor Nero).
Can one access the Guardian without having a starship? Well, Kirk, Spock and McCoy made the jump from Earth's past to the time planet's present easily enough. So Emperor Nero could have done something similar, the Guardian willing.
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps the Guardian can snatch people from the past at will?
The ruins are said to be a million years old, but the Guardian said that it was older than our Sun, making it billions of years old.
That means that the Greek/Roman ruins did not originate with the builder of the Guardian. The Guardian is much older, and the Greek/Roman architecture would have come much later.
The ruins are said to be a million years old, but the Guardian said that it was older than our Sun, making it billions of years old.
That means that the Greek/Roman ruins did not originate with the builder of the Guardian. The Guardian is much older, and the Greek/Roman architecture would have come much later.
So what gives here?
I'll take option "B" (Greek elements used as shorthand for "old ruins"). Yes, they certainly could just look Greek by accident, but it seems a far stretch to be coincidence. Just the presence of columns can be coincidence; fluted columns, less likely; and fluted columns with Ionic capitals is unbelievable as coincidence.
(Of course, this is the show that had a theory of "parallel development" that let them use standing 20th century sets and props to stand in for any given alien planet, so I'm not arguing too loudly here....
)I wouldn't mind seeing a bit...freer redesign for the movie, though.
Hogkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development states that, if the budget remains constant (low), alien planets will appear to be of an essentially human milieu, ideally one well documented in many Hollywood films so there's a lot of spare props lying around.
The budget of Abrams' film defeats Hogkins' law. Expect to see not just new ruins but also a re-designed Guardian that doesn't look like corny cardboard.
The budget of Abrams' film defeats Hogkins' law. Expect to see not just new ruins but also a re-designed Guardian that doesn't look like corny cardboard.
DumbDumb2007
Commander
The Guardian Planet was the home world of the Preservers. In case of their demise thye left the Guardian intact as a failsafe in case the Galaxy needed the ability to go back in time to correct it's wrongs.
Ah.. Why do people think the Preservers were that big a deal?
Sometimes they are claimed to be ancient, but that's the one thing that probably is untrue of them: their only known influence on the galaxy happened only a few centuries prior to "Paradise Syndrome". Sometimes they are claimed to decide the fates of species all across the galaxy, but we have never heard of a second case.
Or have we? The modus operandi of the Preservers is very similar to those of the species that captured small groups of primitives for slave labor, and later abandoned them - see VOY "The 37s" or ENT "North Star", and possibly a few others. In retrospect, the Preserves begin to look like (rather petty) criminals rather than benefactors; why transplant anybody to a star system riddled with asteroid storms, except if the victims are supposed to be expendable?
There are far worthier people for using or controlling the Guardian. The Iconians, perhaps?
Timo Saloniemi
Sometimes they are claimed to be ancient, but that's the one thing that probably is untrue of them: their only known influence on the galaxy happened only a few centuries prior to "Paradise Syndrome". Sometimes they are claimed to decide the fates of species all across the galaxy, but we have never heard of a second case.
Or have we? The modus operandi of the Preservers is very similar to those of the species that captured small groups of primitives for slave labor, and later abandoned them - see VOY "The 37s" or ENT "North Star", and possibly a few others. In retrospect, the Preserves begin to look like (rather petty) criminals rather than benefactors; why transplant anybody to a star system riddled with asteroid storms, except if the victims are supposed to be expendable?
There are far worthier people for using or controlling the Guardian. The Iconians, perhaps?
Timo Saloniemi
DumbDumb2007
Commander
Who else would have been that ancient to have built them ?
The race that could have been there at that planet could have been destroyed by some kind of natural disaster or possibly could have been related to the people of Sarpeidon who used Time Travel to escaope their planet's destruction.
The race that could have been there at that planet could have been destroyed by some kind of natural disaster or possibly could have been related to the people of Sarpeidon who used Time Travel to escaope their planet's destruction.
...Or a mystery race that hasn't been born yet?
It's a time portal, after all. Without knowing more about it, we could just as well believe it was built millions of years from now, and at the moment of construction suddenly began to exist millions of years in the past, too.
Timo Saloniemi
It's a time portal, after all. Without knowing more about it, we could just as well believe it was built millions of years from now, and at the moment of construction suddenly began to exist millions of years in the past, too.
Timo Saloniemi
Hey man, you state this like it's a fact. You're actually just making it up. It's an interesting retcon, but aren't you misleading the poor guy who asked the question?
Such as it is...
Enterprise just ran across the thing. Random (watch the episode). Any connection to Nero is entirely... uh... deeply fanboyish. Sorry.
Kegek said:
Hogkin's Law of Parallel Planetary Development states that, if the budget remains constant (low), alien planets will appear to be of an essentially human milieu, ideally one well documented in many Hollywood films so there's a lot of spare props lying around.
The budget of Abrams' film defeats Hogkins' law. Expect to see not just new ruins but also a re-designed Guardian that doesn't look like corny cardboard.
Yup.
In response to the OP, I don't think there's any connection between a pointed-eared, green-blooded Romulan and Nero of ancient Rome.
As for Roman style ruins on the Guardian's planet, I'll quote a wise old sage whose name escapes me at the moment-
"There's only so many ways to make a shoe."
Headwear for humanoids can only have certain shapes.
Doorknobs used by humanoids have to be in a certain place on the door.
There are only so many different ways things can be built, and it seems that some things were built on the Guardian's planet that mirror the Earth style we know as "Roman".
Either that, or the whole thing is a mad plot by the Organians to drive us insane and make us entertain them as we try to figure it all out.
Nah.
The Q maybe, but certainly not the Organians.
As for Roman style ruins on the Guardian's planet, I'll quote a wise old sage whose name escapes me at the moment-
"There's only so many ways to make a shoe."
Headwear for humanoids can only have certain shapes.
Doorknobs used by humanoids have to be in a certain place on the door.
There are only so many different ways things can be built, and it seems that some things were built on the Guardian's planet that mirror the Earth style we know as "Roman".
Either that, or the whole thing is a mad plot by the Organians to drive us insane and make us entertain them as we try to figure it all out.
Nah.
The Q maybe, but certainly not the Organians.
That would be so like Q to do. Perhaps our first Q-sighting in TOS? We are left to conclude that all of CotEoF is a Q setup. Heck, the shape of the Guardian of Forever is rather Q like. Seriously though, you raise a great point with the Q and the Organians. They seem like opposite sides of the same coin.
In any event, looking at a screenshot: isn't it really just one piece of classical column in the foreground that seems so objectionable?
I'd always figured that someone had perhaps brought that back from the past, intending to use it as a plant stand and dropped that one and left it behind? It is rather vexing that the one sore-thumb-like item is right in front, and not in the distance.
And after all, I've never seen any Guardian of Forever-like Donut shapes in Roman ruins...
Although there does seem to be a Tim Horton's in the distance?
(No, not really. Please, don't anybody assume I'm serious about that.)
In any event, looking at a screenshot: isn't it really just one piece of classical column in the foreground that seems so objectionable?
I'd always figured that someone had perhaps brought that back from the past, intending to use it as a plant stand and dropped that one and left it behind? It is rather vexing that the one sore-thumb-like item is right in front, and not in the distance.
And after all, I've never seen any Guardian of Forever-like Donut shapes in Roman ruins...
Although there does seem to be a Tim Horton's in the distance?
(No, not really. Please, don't anybody assume I'm serious about that.)
