A question about Holodecks

[CaptainSpirk]

If 'Holodecks' are meant to be imaginary stuff, projected with transporter technology and such, and no substance can leave the Holodeck, then wouldn't the water on Wesley Crusher disappear after he dropped into the water on "Encounter at Farpoint?" or wouldn't the lipstick on Picard's lips disappear from his lips on "The Big Goodbye?" after they exit the Holodeck? There could be other examples of this, but these are the only ones I can think of. Are there some goofy explanations as to why the writers didn't think about this?

I'm sorry if this question has been asked before?

 

[tharpdevenport]

I seem to recall reading in some Trek course, maybe a Trek magazine, that the holodeck will sometimes replicate real material, accounting for a wet Wesley or a snowball flying out and hitting Picard.

But it still seems weird -- why do that at all? It's just something that the holodeck then needs to decontruct with an internal replicator to clean the space out and be ready for further use, plus there hasn't been a single time where a crew member ordered the program deactivated and it turned black with the yellow lines and something in there was left behind. It's always empty.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's a trivial matter for the holodeck to replicate, for real, things that...well, need to be replicated.

Like if you conjure up a holoprogram of your favorite restaurant. You go into the program and you eat real food - not holographic food. It's just like if you were in your quarters and you ordered food out of the replicator.

Similarly, if the program calls for you to get hit with a snowball or something like that, it's no big deal for the holodeck to replicate a real snowball and hit you with it. It'd be a lot easier than trying to "fake it" via holo projection.

And it's also very easy for the holodeck to 'reclaim' anything that it had to replicate, and recycle it for later use. Food replicators do that all the time, so why couldn't the holodeck do it?

 

[Leviathan]

Simple: replicators hate Wesley too.

 

[The Wormhole]

I have to say, I always found it weird that Moriarty drew his picture of the Enterprise on a real piece of paper, not only did Data carry it out of the holodeck, he took it all the way to the briefing with the senior staff. But then, in Ship in a Bottle, Picard tries to prove his point by throwing a book outside the holodeck, which promptly vanishes at the door. So the holodeck will create a real piece of paper, but not a book? Is it concerned about killing holographic trees or something?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I have to say, I always found it weird that Moriarty drew his picture of the Enterprise on a real piece of paper, not only did Data carry it out of the holodeck, he took it all the way to the briefing with the senior staff. But then, in Ship in a Bottle, Picard tries to prove his point by throwing a book outside the holodeck, which promptly vanishes at the door. So the holodeck will create a real piece of paper, but not a book? Is it concerned about killing holographic trees or something?

Holodecks are programmed with a needs of the plot subroutine

 

[marsh8472]

In certain modes the holodeck can scan a person and replace the holographic data around them with replicated matter as they leave the holodeck to give them a "you were really there" feeling.

 

[Timo]

Holodecks are entertainment. They are programmed and built to satisfy the user.

Moriarty wanted his piece of paper carried through the doors, so this happened (first it's just "hard light", but the moment the 'deck realizes it will leave the premises it becomes solid matter instead). Picard wanted Moriarty to remain confined to the holodeck and for his demonstration object to vanish, so this happened, too.

It's not a particularly difficult or complex thing compared to what the 'deck "normally" or "routinely" does. In order for it to work at all, there must be seamless cooperation between optical illusions, forcefields, replication and dereplication, and a dozen dirty tricks the user isn't aware of at all. And "consistency" is not a user-desirable feature; "smoothness" is. So the latter is what they get.

Remember that replication or transportation without the telltale sound and sparkle is scorned by Picard as a parlor trick in "Devil's Due". Being inside the walls of a holodeck isn't vital for most of the illusions; it just allows for a greater range of tricks, and a more complete and enjoyable experience as the result. But sometimes the holodeck bending over backwards to please the customer isn't enough - in "The Big Goodbye", it can't project whole sapient humanoid simulations very far from its doorway, although it damn well tries, no doubt again combining its trademark forcefields and light shows with replication and transportation of actual matter.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CaptainSpirk]

I seem to recall reading in some Trek course, maybe a Trek magazine, that the holodeck will sometimes replicate real material, accounting for a wet Wesley or a snowball flying out and hitting Picard.

But it still seems weird -- why do that at all? It's just something that the holodeck then needs to deconstruct with an internal replicator to clean the space out and be ready for further use, plus there hasn't been a single time where a crew member ordered the program deactivated and it turned black with the yellow lines and something in there was left behind. It's always empty.

This all defeats the purpose of holography then, which isn't meant to be real at all in the first place. All holographic environment should be confined to the holodeck simulator. So, if Virtual Reality was real for us, then couldn't the objects in the VR environment become real for us as well then?

 

[Jedman67]

There are a couple of instances of Holodeck Malfunction where they are concerned that shutting down the holodeck will 'dematerialize' the real people stuck inside, effectively killing them.
Or in Voyager, when they shut off the safeties so the holographic bombs could destroy the holodeck.
If you really think about, the only way it makes sense is if the crew who enter the holodeck ingest a dose of a targeted hallucinogen, and the holodeck simply projects the simulation straight into the persons brain via the drug.

 

[Kevman7987]

I have to say, I always found it weird that Moriarty drew his picture of the Enterprise on a real piece of paper, not only did Data carry it out of the holodeck, he took it all the way to the briefing with the senior staff. But then, in Ship in a Bottle, Picard tries to prove his point by throwing a book outside the holodeck, which promptly vanishes at the door. So the holodeck will create a real piece of paper, but not a book? Is it concerned about killing holographic trees or something?

I've always thought that it was designed so that most things you physically are carrying out are replicated in your hands as you leave.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps the computer can, with enough training, sense the intent of the person using it.

To wit: Picard threw the book out of the holodeck, obviously intending that it disappear. So that's what the computer made it do. Moriarty, on the other hand, had no such intention with the picture he drew. So the computer let it continue to exist.

Or, slightly more realistic , maybe the computer dematerialized the book so it wouldn't hit somebody.

 

[tharpdevenport]

And it's also very easy for the holodeck to 'reclaim' anything that it had to replicate, and recycle it for later use. Food replicators do that all the time, so why couldn't the holodeck do it?

I guess my problems ares:


1. Why is holographic tech' even used so often if the holodeck can simply replicate stuff? If it is so easy to reclaim, why not replicate entire environments? I understand holograms serve a purpose for thigns like running, long trails, sky diving, etc., when you are dealing with programs that are much larger than the dimensional confines of the Holodeck itself.

2. Where is the line drawn for real thigns replicated? How complex does it get? Aside from obvious likely safety protocols/laws, why couldn't, for example, a person be created and then the the program of the mind uploaded into an artificial mind inside the brain cavity?

3. How does the holodeck decide what is and what is not needed to be real as apposed to a hologram?

And how does it happen in large areas? Take for example when Picard got hit by a snowball flying out of the holodeck. What if you are running around in the snow, a large area or going outside of the confines of the holodeck, so it has to use holographic trickery to fool you into thinking you have gone far (which also doesn't make sense if more than two people, really), and you make your way to snow that is holographic because it was not in the original outlines and decide to throw a snowball using that snow. So, what happens there? Are you now throwing holograohic snowballs? It would seem extremely unlikely the holodeck suddenly was not only able to change the holographic snow into real replicated snow that also looks exactly like it did before hand (replicators cant' even reproduce cooked food quite right, so we are told in-verse) but also intermix it with the real replicated snow. So why even have real replicated snow at all? Same goes for swimming, for example.

 

[CaptainSpirk]

Where is the line drawn for real thigns replicated?.

The line must drawn here, this far no further and I will make them pay for what they've done!!!

 

[tharpdevenport]

I most now sequestor myself in a room and flog myself merciously while yelling "Tubalcain!".

 

[uniderth]

2. Where is the line drawn for real thigns replicated? How complex does it get? Aside from obvious likely safety protocols/laws, why couldn't, for example, a person be created and then the the program of the mind uploaded into an artificial mind inside the brain cavity?

That would be a fascinating episode.

What if you are running around in the snow, a large area or going outside of the confines of the holodeck, so it has to use holographic trickery to fool you into thinking you have gone far (which also doesn't make sense if more than two people, really),

Its interesting becasue we see them interact with the wall in Encounter at Farpoint, and the wall is reference later. But beyond that we don't hear much from the wall. My theory is that if you had two people walk in opposite directions they could walk forever because the holodeck would create a sort of forced perspective divider between the two of you. If more people came in the holodeck the wouldn't see the divider becasue the holodeck would partition the space again so that all perspectives were maintained. You could see and hear someone as if they were 100 yards away even they were only really a few yards away. It would have been interesting to see more of the trickery of the holodeck explored in the series. I think the TNG tech manual explained a bunch of this.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I most now sequestor myself in a room and flog myself merciously while yelling "Tubalcain!".

No, just go Pie Jesu domine, dona eis requiem and bonk yourself in the head.

 

[tharpdevenport]

I remember reading about the holodecks doing that to make people think they keep going otherwise, skydiving (which I recall one or two Trek series character saying they did) would be impossible. Throwing an object at the wall of the Holodeck and having it bounce off and affect the image, was such utter shit.

It's stupid, it makes the holograms appear to be two-dimensional instead of the three dimensional they are and it shows that aparently just hitting it lightly causes it to affect hte diplay of the hologram, which makes no sense considering this never happens again considering the use of the holodecks like Worf's intensive battle training.

 

[Tenacity]

Throwing an object at the wall of the Holodeck and having it bounce off and affect the image, was such utter shit.

Not really. It depends on the computers ability to monitor and "guess" the intent of Data when he threw the rock towards the actual wall. Data wanted the rock to disrupt the simulation, and so the simulated was disrupted.

If Data had simple thrown a rock with the intent for it to travel a distance and eventual hit the ground, that is what would happen. At a certain point, the rock would have ceased to exist and a image of the receding rock would have replaced it, allowing the "rock" to apparently travel beyond the confines of the holodeck. Initially the rock was physical there.

RIKER: I didn't believe these simulations could be this real.
DATA: Much of it is real.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It was established I think in Farpoint that some of the holographic matter was replicated. That must be the case anyway or you couldn't safely eat anything on the holodeck.