A more military Enterprise/Starfleet? (Potential spoilers)

[Lee]

As part of a Trek Lit thread, the question has come up as to whether in the new film, the Enterprise, or, I suppose, Starfleet as a whole, is more military than in the original timeline.

I thought I remembered at some point that the filmmakers had said that the new Enterprise's design and weapons complement was more military as a result of Nero's destruction of the Kelvin. I've tried to search the forum and trekmovie.com to confirm that, but there's so much info there, I'm having a hard time with the search. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can weigh in on this, and let me know if I'm remembering correctly or if I just dreamed it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[BenRoethig]

I know its a question of semantics, but being military doesn't necessarily mean being primarily combat oriented.

 

[Garak]

It's better to have a heavily armored and weaponized spaceship and not need it rather than not having a heavily armored and weaponized spaceship and needing it.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Starfleet has always been a military (NOT a debate I want to visit). Their ships have always thus been militarized (that is, equipped for their military use).

 

[USS Triumphant]

Of course, I haven't seen the movie, but I tend to think the improvements in weapons and such have more to do with interference from Ambassador Spock than from Nero.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

IIRC, there was an early rumor that we'd see "a version of the Enterprise in an alternate timeline" that would be more of a battleship than we're used to seeing. Rumors of that kind, though, are a game of "telephone" and it's hard to know how close they are to actual information.

My favorite example of this was the rumor that leaked out shortly after TWOK wrapped production that the plot revolved around Khan "stealing a weather-making machine" which he used to "trap the Enterprise in a cloud." That turned out to be accurate, in the very broadest of terms, while being entirely misleading.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Of course, I haven't seen the movie, but I tend to think the improvements in weapons and such have more to do with interference from Ambassador Spock than from Nero.

I don't think Spock would do something like that. He wouldn't want to risk altering the timeline to that degree - his mission is to *restore* history, not cause it to diverge even more. If Starfleet ship design is any different, it's not likely to be due to direct intervention by Spock. If word gets out that the Romulans were responsible for the destruction of the Kelvin, then Starfleet could intentionally ramp up its ship production and make their ships stronger, but it wouldn't be Spock personally directing that effort.

 

[Basil]

IIRC, there was an early rumor that we'd see "a version of the Enterprise in an alternate timeline" that would be more of a battleship than we're used to seeing. Rumors of that kind, though, are a game of "telephone" and it's hard to know how close they are to actual information.

My favorite example of this was the rumor that leaked out shortly after TWOK wrapped production that the plot revolved around Khan "stealing a weather-making machine" which he used to "trap the Enterprise in a cloud." That turned out to be accurate, in the very broadest of terms, while being entirely misleading.

I recall something to that effect in Starlog.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

We've already had a more military Enterprise/Starfleet. Nick "Nautical but Nice" Meyer gave us that in both of the films he directed, even more so in TUC going so far as to making the Big E look more and more like a worn-out battleship/submarine.

In TWOK, Meyer gives us a huge beat-to-quarters sequence complete with the running out of the guns.

NEM has it's own version of the beat-to-quarters scene from TWOK. Although, a cut line from that film has Picard lamenting on how Darwin never had the need for "muscle" while traveling on the Beagle.

And we've seen the various trappings of the military throughout TOS and DS9, the latter giving us a Starfleet at war.

So really, I don't know how much more military can Abrams and company (hey, sounds like a new television show) make Trek.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Starfleet is very muh patterned after the Navy, and Gene Roddenberry was a military pilot himself, which influenced things somewhat.

TOS absolutely had it's military side.

Look at how the battles were conducted, a well trained crew, phaser crews, onboard security, and armed personnel on some missions.

It also had ranks, a strong chain of command, and disciplinary procedures, such as a court marshal and competency hearings.

Starfleet is also highly regulated, as evidenced by McCoy's occasional threat to remove the Captain from command, and in Balance of Terror, the crew were regarded as expendable.

Basically, it is taking the organization of the Military, removing the classic salute, and adding an emphasis on exploration and diplomacy.

Think Coast Guard with a touch of the Navy.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Think Coast Guard with a touch of the Navy.

Can we think of it more as Jacques Cousteau with guns? Now that might be more fun!

 

[Mordock]

Can we think of it more as Jacques Cousteau with guns? Now that might be more fun!

"Anne-Marie, do all of the interns get Glocks?"

 

[Ol Scratch]

I always thought it was terribly irresponsible for any of these starships to not be military vessels. How many times did the TNG Enterprise get into a life-and-death situation with entire civilian families onboard? There's even been multiple instances where they focused on the trauma and tragedy the children onboard had to deal with on a regular basis, yet they continued to keep them around.

Hell, when Picard decides to disobey orders and go after the Borg in First Contact the first thing that should have gone through his head is "where do I ditch all the civilians onboard?"

Anyway, the latter part of ENT's run had it figured out. Such a ship needs an entourage of marine-like soldiers rather than random red-shirt scientists. The ships themselves were always appropriately armed and armored, it was the crew make-up that was all "wtf"ish.

 

[Timo]

Yet there'd be no point in going to space in the first place if one ditched all the payload in favor of defensive personnel and equipment. If self-defense were the point of all this, then the best defense would be to stay at home.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't think Spock would do something like that. He wouldn't want to risk altering the timeline to that degree - his mission is to *restore* history, not cause it to diverge even more.

Actually, the logic of the situation would be to do as much as he can to improve Starfleet tech and knowledge, to increase the chances of restoring the timeline. If the timeline is restored, then any changes he made would be undone, since the correction would be before those changes were required. If they fail to restore the timeline, then he would be stuck with this one - and he may as well offer his best to Starfleet, especially since they'll probably need it with the changes Nero has made.

 

[The Wormhole]

If you actually pay attention during TOS, you'll notice that Starfleet is portrayed very much as a military organization, and I believe that was the intention at the time. It wasn't until modern-day Trek that the Starfleet began denying its military nature. Most expecially in Enterprise when the MACOs were introduced, and even that seemed to be something not thought out at all. It seemed that by Enterprise's logic, "military" meant being a kick-ass soldier with a big-ass gun.

Rest assured, if Trek XI depicts Starfleet as a military organization, it will actually have gotten something right, and will be true to the spirit of TOS Trek.

But sadly, those zeroes will still be around.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always looked at Starfleet as being a jack-of-all-trades service. It's a military, but it's also a space exploration program, a scientific research institute, a diplomatic organization, a domestic operations agency, etc.

I tend to view Picard's statement about Starfleet in "Peak Peformance" as being the result of living in roughly a half-century of relative peace in the Galaxy (and overall complacency in the Federation) that ended not too soon afterwards.

Two major Borg offensives and a war with the Dominion probably has changed Picard's viewpoint about Starfleet's need for continual battle readiness...

 

[punkydrewster]

I've always thought of Starfleet's defensive role as a secondary one to exploration, diplomacy, ect. Its more likely that one would spend more of his career in Starfleet studying anomalies, stars, planets, and learning about alien cultures when the Federation is at peace, than doing secret missions and the like. After all the motto is "to boldly go where no one has gone before" not "to boldly beat the crap out of anyone who disagrees with us".

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I'm seeing a common misconception here, that miliatries exist soley to bully people. Their mission isn't "to boldly beat crap up." Your statement may have held some truth were we talking about an 18th century military force, but a good look at a modern army or navy will show just how many non-combat roles that the military has taken on. Starfleet is a logical progression of that, having taken on roles of front-line research and (most importantly) quick-response diplomacy, colonial support, and a whole laundry list that probably goes on forever. The latter two are absolutley critical to a star-faring civilization like the Federation, and fall into the category of "ensuring the saftey of the Federation." The deep-space exploration programs are just icing on the cake IMO. Not every Federation ship is going to be exploring the unknown reaches... just the top-of-the line cruisers.

Now if the word military was synonymous with imperialistic conquerers, I would share your concern. However, it is not. The way I see it, Starfleet is mainly defensive in nature (as any military worth its salt should be) and further the Federation's goals through a number of important non-combat tasks.

So no, Starfleet's "defensive" role isn't less important than exploration, diplomacy and research, because they're all for the same purpose: Expansion and protection of the Federation.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Put it this way: Starfleet is military, it's just not militaristic. There is a difference.