A Middle Earth Question

[Skywalker]

Actually there's something to be said for CT's point of view also. While I applaud Jackson's movies as a tour de force, a landmark achievement and a bunch of other superlatives, there is a lot of stuff which is "Not Tolkien" about them also - and I'm not just talking about the reworking of the stories or additions/subtractions - which (I think) is where CT comes from.

I completely agree. I really liked Jackson's movies (especially FOTR), but there were a lot of things they did that either didn't work or just felt wrong (mostly in TTT and ROTK).

But at least Jackson isn't like Philippa Boyens, who openly admitted on the FOTR commentary that she felt they actually improved on Tolkien's story in some parts.

 

[QCzar]

coolghoul, I find it unlikely that any of the Quendi endured for that long, as according to even the most liberal reading of Tolkien's writings on the subject, they would have wasted away long before then. It implies that they (presumably Avari/Silvan elves) would've become something more akin to spirits, if that. If anything of them would survive into modern times, it would most likely be creatures not unlike the various Fae (fairies, elves, gnomes, trolls, etc.) of west European mythology. Or perhaps nature/tree spirits as exists in Pagan and Animist belief systems.

In other words, misty, spectral creatures seldom encountered by people deemed in complete command of their senses. Kind of like the Barrow Wights of their own time.

 

[Hound of UIster]

And that the Avari (or those Elves who choose to stay behind and do not go to Valinor and the Undying lands) will with the passage of time become the Elves that we see in some of the other books.

Funny idea and along that line the Melnibonians in famed Tolkien hater Michael Moorcock's Elric stories were also suppose to be a species of evil Elves.

 

[mswood]

Actually there's something to be said for CT's point of view also. While I applaud Jackson's movies as a tour de force, a landmark achievement and a bunch of other superlatives, there is a lot of stuff which is "Not Tolkien" about them also - and I'm not just talking about the reworking of the stories or additions/subtractions - which (I think) is where CT comes from.

I completely agree. I really liked Jackson's movies (especially FOTR), but there were a lot of things they did that either didn't work or just felt wrong (mostly in TTT and ROTK).

But at least Jackson isn't like Philippa Boyens, who openly admitted on the FOTR commentary that she felt they actually improved on Tolkien's story in some parts.

See I agree with her. In some aspects (not saying the majority or a lot, but a few I feel are more rounded and developed then the books. Of course the reverse is also very true that the books in many, many forms out shine the films.

But there are elements of the films that I find superior.

 

[Skywalker]

That's not the point. It was a pretty egotistical and disrespectful thing for her to say.

 

[coolghoul]

coolghoul, I find it unlikely that any of the Quendi endured for that long, as according to even the most liberal reading of Tolkien's writings on the subject, they would have wasted away long before then. It implies that they (presumably Avari/Silvan elves) would've become something more akin to spirits, if that. If anything of them would survive into modern times, it would most likely be creatures not unlike the various Fae (fairies, elves, gnomes, trolls, etc.) of west European mythology. Or perhaps nature/tree spirits as exists in Pagan and Animist belief systems.

In other words, misty, spectral creatures seldom encountered by people deemed in complete command of their senses. Kind of like the Barrow Wights of their own time.

I really smiled when I read your comment - I strongly recommend that you try to read Shadowmarch. You might enjoy it.

The Shadows are a mysterious ancient race that now have retreated to the north. A mysterious 'Shadowline' separates the Qar (as they call themselves) from the humans. The Qar are living 'The Long Retreat' when one of their foremost warrior Yasammez ("The Scourge of the Shivering Plains" ) throws of the melancholy and decides that they will go down gloriously - other Qar who yearn to regain their mastery side with her. But even tho' the elderly blind Qar monarch has to permit this last attack, he has set other things in motion...

Later in book 2, some humans (unfortunate beings) cross the Shadowline - basically a mist or cloud - a living "breathing" thing and encounter what I think could be described as a misty, spectral, eerie, semi-alien world. There are creatures of flesh and blood but unlike any - they are all Qar. Some Qar are vaguely human, some cannot be recognized as anything but animals.

It's really good stuff!! Take a brief look at the Wikipedia entry - the plot summary is vague enough to not spoil *anything* in the book.

 

[QCzar]

^I might just do that. I also find the story of how the author created that universe and first published quite intriguing.

 

[MNM]

That's not the point. It was a pretty egotistical and disrespectful thing for her to say.

Why? Is Tolkien some untouchable God of literature? Can no one suggest that nothing he did is less than perfect?

If she thought aspects of the movies improved on aspects of his story, then she is perfectly entitled to say it, and quite clearly, people agree with her. If you dont then fine, but that doesnt make her egotistical or disrespectful.