A matter of Color.

[Henoch]

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd141.jpg
The shirt colors to departments to ship duties are confusing in WNMHGB.
Command = Green-gold.
Ship Services = Salmon-beige.
Sciences (and Security?) = Blue.
I'm so used to the regular TOS series colors.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I've always perceived a color difference between the gold and pink shirts in WNMHGB. It was there on NTSC in the 1970s, but it was a very subtle difference, and right at the threshold of not being noticeable at all.

I think Scotty would rather we call it salmon than pink.

 

[Timo]

...Why? Sounds fishy to me.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

The WNMHGB versions are clearly a step closer, if still prototypical, to the TOS regular versions than those in the cage. The distinction between Kirk/Spock vs Scotty/Mitchell is obviously intended to be a ways towards the three color scheme from TOS.

It's clearly more evidence that Theiss intended command to be green. But as intriguing as that is, the canonical color is still gold.

 

[plynch]

Is there any canon calling command gold in that era? DS9 calls it gold in the Tribbles era, one uniform change later.

Perhaps (in-universe) starfleet went to gold and red because command green and services tan were too similar in wnmhgb era.

 

[Marsden]

I think Scotty would rather we call it salmon than pink.

Beyond a salmon of doubt.

 

[Neopeius]

I think Scotty would rather we call it salmon than pink.

It's light red!

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

The shirt colors to departments to ship duties are confusing in WNMHGB.
Command = Green-gold.
Ship Services = Salmon-beige.
Sciences (and Security?) = Blue.
I'm so used to the regular TOS series colors.

That looks right for the pilot sweaters. Not unusual though, since some tactical offiers wear blue in TOS and in "Star Trek Five." There was a blue Sciences/Tactial patch on Chekov's uniform in TMP; the uniform itself being tan/beige color. As I have said, it would seem that Blue for Sciences in and tan/biege for Services continues all the way into the Voyager era.

The WNMHGB versions are clearly a step closer, if still prototypical, to the TOS regular versions than those in the cage. The distinction between Kirk/Spock vs Scotty/Mitchell is obviously intended to be a ways towards the three color scheme from TOS.

It's clearly more evidence that Theiss intended command to be green. But as intriguing as that is, the canonical color is still gold.

The color that Kirk wears in the 2nd pilot is the same one he wears in the series, so it probably should have the same name in both cases.

And the color that Mitchell wore is present in "The Cage," worn by Yeoman Colt among others. There were always three colors, it turns out. In addition, what we are now calling pink/salmon/yellow/orange lines up nicely with the yellowish or orange-ish color worn by Service Personnel later eras: in TMP, sweaters in the later the movies, late TNG, DS9 and Voyager, and also the undershirt of the First Contact uniform.

 

[plynch]

For sure the normal TOS eps, it's gold , cuz DS9 says so.

Wnmhgb, however, it could be a different color in universe. Ah, neve r mind,justhavin fun and it's time for bed.

Hey don't the piping color s on DSC's track suits correspond to the pilo t color schemes?
(no t drunk, typing on kindle is hard)

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

For sure the normal TOS eps, it's gold , cuz DS9 says so.

It may be called "gold" on DS9, but it is same color worn by Kirk in the pilots, and also in the series. We can debate how green it looks or not, but it is what Command officers wore. I feel that I've posted this same thing many times. I think it looks pretty green, but so does "fools gold" once you streak it on paper, as opposed to real gold that does not streak as much.

The name of the color is not as important to me as pointing out that the color worn by Services Personnel in the TNG era is closer to the color worn by Services in the pilots than it is to TOS Command. As in, contrary to popular belief, the Command/Services colors did not flip for TNG, but instead the Salmon/beige Service color came back into use and Command personnel wore red for some reason. Sisko never said the colors flipped; he just said what officers wore what in TOS. That makes sense to me, since the Services color is used in pretty much every era, but is only worn by extras in stock footage and survey vessels in TOS.

 

[Henoch]

It looked like both Captain Ramart and 1st Officer of the SS Antares both wore the Salmon (Red), too. Maybe this is how Commodores Stone and Stocker came up through the ranks. Captained on surveyors/transports.
when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century

 

[plynch]

It may be called "gold" on DS9, but it is same color worn by Kirk in the pilots

I love this thread. I am not trying to be feisty.

But: what is your canonical evidence that the TOS normal command color -- gold, in-universe -- "is [the] same color worn by Kirk in the pilots?" How do we know there wasn't a change? They changed collars, after all.

Be well.

 

[uniderth]

There are also two other colors that are lesser known. We have this tan color shown in "The Arena". I used to think this was just a recollared version of the tan (sorry guys that's definitely NOT salmon) uniform from the two pilots. But now that I look at it. This appears to be a lighter tan.

And the silver Academy uniform. Though I suppose this should be counted for the Pike era. Have you ever noticed how Academy uniforms often predate the looks of the main uniforms? This uniform preceded the look of the black collared uniforms of Kirk's era. And the black jumpsuits with colored shoulders of TNG preceded the DSN/Voyager uniforms.

 

[J.T.B.]

Maybe this is how Commodores Stone and Stocker came up through the ranks. Captained on surveyors/transports.

Stone commanded a starship, just like Kirk. Stocker never had a "field" command at all. I am assuming a vessel of any size would qualify as a field command. Though there is some question on whether Antares was originally intended to be a Starfleet ship at all.

 

[plynch]

I always assumed gray for cadets harkened back to the gray worn by military cadets today.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There are also two other colors that are lesser known. We have this tan color shown in "The Arena". I used to think this was just a recollared version of the tan (sorry guys that's definitely NOT salmon) uniform from the two pilots. But now that I look at it. This appears to be a lighter tan.

And the silver Academy uniform. Though I suppose this should be counted for the Pike era. Have you ever noticed how Academy uniforms often predate the looks of the main uniforms? This uniform preceded the look of the black collared uniforms of Kirk's era. And the black jumpsuits with colored shoulders of TNG preceded the DSN/Voyager uniforms.

The Arena shirt was also used in "Balance of Terror" for the Outpost commander, Hansen.

Finnegan's shirt also shows up in "The Trouble with Tribbles," and maybe elsewhere, so it's still in use in Kirk's era. You call it silver, but on NTSC syndication in the 1970s it was light blue.

 

[uniderth]

The Arena shirt was also used in "Balance of Terror" for the Outpost commander, Hansen.

That's true, that's true.

Finnegan's shirt also shows up in "The Trouble with Tribbles," and maybe elsewhere, so it's still in use in Kirk's era.

That's also true.

You call it silver, but on NTSC syndication in the 1970s it was light blue.

Well, whatever it is, it sure is sparkly; and that means futuristic.

 

[plynch]

came up in another thread, but whooee, is Kirk lookin pretty olive green in t his natural lighting:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=63&page=25

 

[J.T.B.]

I think Scotty would rather we call it salmon than pink.

Although, WW2 US Army officer's service uniform trousers were a shade universally known as "pink." (And the Army is now bringing back something similar).

(Note also variation in shade of jackets, trousers, shirt and ties).

The term survived in some police departments after the war. Salt Lake City police have what they call "pink" trousers for some uniforms, too (they were worn for everyday duty till around 2000).

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

There are also two other colors that are lesser known. We have this tan color shown in "The Arena". I used to think this was just a recollared version of the tan (sorry guys that's definitely NOT salmon) uniform from the two pilots. But now that I look at it. This appears to be a lighter tan.

And the silver Academy uniform. Though I suppose this should be counted for the Pike era. Have you ever noticed how Academy uniforms often predate the looks of the main uniforms? This uniform preceded the look of the black collared uniforms of Kirk's era. And the black jumpsuits with colored shoulders of TNG preceded the DSN/Voyager uniforms.

I see what you mean about the lighter tan for Hansen and this guy's uniform. It, too, looks like a color that carried over in TMP. It is a smoother fabric than the pilot sweaters in my opinion.

But: what is your canonical evidence that the TOS normal command color -- gold, in-universe -- "is [the] same color worn by Kirk in the pilots?" How do we know there wasn't a change? They changed collars, after all.

Extensive analysis one different screens and by using screencaps as well as the episodes where characters are moving around in the lighting, especially in early episodes where the older uniform is still in use by some personnel.

Check out this page; Pikes shirt even almost matches the dress uniforms on this page, further cementing the fact that TOS "gold," has a green hue and was already the Command Color in the Pilots.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=13&page=2
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=39

Stone commanded a starship, just like Kirk. Stocker never had a "field" command at all. I am assuming a vessel of any size would qualify as a field command. Though there is some question on whether Antares was originally intended to be a Starfleet ship at all.

I took this situation to explain how Starfleet has colonels as well as Captains. Those who attain the rank but do not serve on ships would be colonels instead of captains.