Spoilers A Lit-verse Grand Finale...What We Know (Spoilers for Entire Lit-verse)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by ryan123450, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    The Post-ROTJ era was the era the lasted the longest without any interruption, since all of George's new stuff (movies, Clone Wars) were pre-OT.

    The Clone Wars series was mine field for new tie-in works set during that era. Allegedly oine author even quit writing Star Wars novels because Clone Wars was contradicting her stuff so much.
     
  2. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never said it was building to a grand finale, all I meant was that they just ended things the moment the new shows and started, and in the process even dropped books that had already been announced.
    While, on the other hand, CBS is actually allowing the Star Trek books to tie things up before they stop publishing books set in the Novelverse continuity.
     
  3. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Who was the Star Wars novelist who rage-quit when their work was decanonized? I have dim memories of this happening, but it also feels like it was a lifetime ago.
     
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  4. David Weller

    David Weller Commander Red Shirt

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  5. David cgc

    David cgc Admiral Premium Member

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    I think you're thinking of Karen Traviss, and her issues actually predated the Disney acquisition and continuity reset; she was upset that the Clone Wars TV show wasn't carrying forward her characterization of the Jedi as dead-eyed murdering cultists and the Mandalorians as steely-eyed murdering idealists, and didn't care to alter her subsequent writing to fit with the new show (which, to be fair, since her planned final book was to be a direct sequel to her prior book, which had been roundly contradicted by the show establishing Mandalorians had put aside their martial ways generations earlier, would've been all but impossible).
     
  6. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Funnily enough, Star Wars Rebels would use some of the Mando'a language in one episode. I don't know if they were any of the words she created, as some words existed before she started fleshing it out in the books.
     
  7. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Star Wars canon has always used Legends (EU) as a resource similar to concept art, past or present. You put it all out in front of George Lucas or whoever and they’re free to pick and choose. Lucasfilm owns everything, so why reinvent the wheel if you don’t have to? The Millennnium Falcon is a YT-1300 freighter, fine; this galaxy map looks cool, great.
     
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  8. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tying things up is far better then just jumping to a new continuity and pretending the old stories did not exist
     
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  9. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just call it “the heat death of the Lit-verse”. Star Trek: The Big Chill. How do you dramatize a universe being frozen and cannibalized for parts, which, let’s face it, is the usual fate of a tie-inverse?

    Instead of going for melancholy, the infinities tie-up (side-reality resolutions that would never be accepted otherwise) and/or the Big Bang exit, why not depict what really does happen when a canon iteration overrides interacting tie-ins? A character’s storyline could stop in the former vision, then continue from a different point in the revised universe. And all the while the years would change as one story slowly evolves into another.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  10. ToddCam

    ToddCam Captain Captain

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    While I am someone who doesn't really care what counts as 'canon' within fiction (anymore), I can understand why such things came to be such a huge deal. At least in my experience, outside of fandoms, I only hear the word canon in regards to the Bible. For those who believe in such things, it can literally be deadly serious what is canonical and what is not.
     
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  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Anyone who treats entertainment as if it were religion has some problems with perspective already, even before the word "canon" comes into it.
     
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  12. Dayton Ward

    Dayton Ward Word Pusher Rear Admiral

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    Wait. What?

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I emphasized the above in bold to illustrate the lack of awareness and understanding for the fandom as a whole or even literally the next forum over.

    You claim that fans can’t have fun evaluating fictional sources, prioritizing and putting together invented elements into a hobby construct without that being comparable to… what? (I’ll be charitable and say belief in eternal damnation; you know, if you dare think that Picard was still in Starfleet as of 2387.)

    What about hobbies such as cosplay or model-building, which are also finicky about their (re)sources? “I had the blueprints when I was little, and the ship was a bit off but it looked cool and that was fine!” Well, sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. People like to be accurate, and the main standard of accuracy is what’s onscreen and what most of your audience will remember.

    This is not to say that Star Trek cannot be enjoyed on various levels, but if a writer or a showrunner isn’t that good or if they’re interfered with too much, their works won’t be followed for the usual, literary kind of fun. The difference is that casual audiences will move on, while fan audiences will linger with questions: “What else happened? What happens next?” I’m sure the franchise owners are only too happy to oblige, otherwise they’d put a another moratorium on the franchise until they can find a way to commission Star Trek that isn’t merely good enough for fans and the odd casual viewer.

    If someone doesn’t like to see their work analyzed for lore or prioritized on that basis, there is an actual solution: don’t work for an established franchise. For the most part, original works are taken on literary merit alone, and even if they start being analyzed for lore, it’s all canon anyway. Frankly, I’m surprised how many people don’t just take this in stride: if someone likes the story, great; if they like to play with the scenery, or if they’re not buying the book because it doesn’t fit the scenery game, also fine. Such acceptance really should come with the territory, which isn’t all about the casual audience.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  14. IRW Bloodwing

    IRW Bloodwing Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Guinan and/or Q.

    Frankly, I hate this. Let the lit-verse be its own thing. Give room for other people to play in the sandbox who don't want to be confined to the on-air material.
     
  15. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    And, honestly, it does start to feel way too much like religion for my tastes, complete with heated sectarian battles over what constitutes a "true fan" or "real Trek," and people using terms like "abomination" or "blasphemy" without irony.
     
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  16. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But @ToddCam’s post has nothing to do with extreme, irrational reactions to change. Let’s not allow that argument to slide over there for justification: what is being carelessly compared with ‘deadly serious’ religious canon is the concept of canon as the original set of works, the lowest common denominator with the greatest predictive power, especially in discussions of minutiae, not to mention the standard you yourself are required to follow in writing tie-in novels, in the sense that canon sets the terms because a different tier said so. Invoking the religious interpretation of the word in order to imply extremism is an insult to everyone the next forum over, as if each forum here represented a distinct sphere of fan opinion. No. I don’t do cosplay or model building, but I can appreciate the effort involved, and I can follow this point of view without misrepresentation or ridicule.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  17. Una McCormack

    Una McCormack Writer Red Shirt

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    FWIW, I think it is a sign of vitality that a set of stories can have multiple versions. Would anyone say there was a canonical version of the Arthurian stories? Robin Hood? Of course not. It's the many tellings and retellings, the variety of different interpretations, that breathe continuing life into characters and settings, that will give them longevity. Bring me many Kirks and Spocks and Garaks and Picards and Janeways; may they roam forever free among the stars.
     
  18. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, but for some reason that’s not how it works even at the highest levels. You’d think that Abrams or Kurtzman could convince Paramount to introduce Star Trek reboots and continue updating the timeline as we move forward (where’s my sleeper ship museum?), but apparently not: they always compromise by keeping the backstory similar or swept under the rug even as the visuals change, which causes needless friction because it’s not one or the other.

    That would be one way to reduce the impact of canon: cater to general audiences more than the fans and introduce reboots designed to keep Star Trek up to date with respect to our present day, similar to what Arthur C. Clarke was doing with his Odyssey books. Look for up-and-coming showrunners and give them total control to realize such independent visions, rather than worry about an interconnected franchise.
     
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  19. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, it seems that Kurtzman and/or CBS are giving showrunners wide berths to create their shows. The issue is that some showrunners (McMahon, Chabon) have no interest in rebooting, and rather want to continue in the universe established. Add to this CBS's wish to have all their new series interconnected (yet independent), there's really no likelihood for a full reboot in the future.
     
  20. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Tie-ins are about promoting the current thing. The current thing is the newest shows.

    The only reason we've had so many stories is because Trek was off TV for a decade.

    Should be happy we're actually getting a send off.
     
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