A Lit-verse based TOS chronology

[Jbarney]

I just did a quick search through them; outside the scenes with Zek on Risa in the Ferenginar one, I don't see any significant references at all (one or two mentions of the planet at best in the other five), and none of the Zek scenes have any mention of those troubles either that I could spot.

Thanks! I tried to do some research on it today, flipping through a couple of the books, and pretty much coming up empty as well. It is likely I am just recalling some other factoid about books being linked in 2376. I appreciate the time you put into this.

On a different note, I continue to try and be aware of the pacing issues with the late 2376 SCE stuff, and at least the last couple of missions I read, Paradise Interrupted and Where Time Stands Still.... the passage of time really isn't an issue. Of course, I am not to Wounds yet....something you mentioned is troublesome, but Paradise Inturrupted and Where Time Stands Still both unfold over just a few days. Loving these SCE stories.

So this is a minor point, but I just went over the Worlds of Deep Space 9 Zek material on Risa too, ...either the Paradise Interrupted weather disruptions were localized to one area and Zek was no where near those events.....or his advanced age prevented him from taking in anything on the news feeds......Paradise Interrupted and Satisfaction is Not Guaranteed are pretty close to each other in the timeline.

 

[Jbarney]

Just wanted to post....I am loving the chronological leanings that the Vanguard series has brought to TOS. Currently reading the 4 novellas in Declassified and all of the timeline references are gold. I may may watch original series episodes with a different perspective after this.

 

[Jbarney]

The Stars Look Down.....I am just looking for some thoughts on where people have this placed in their own timelines. The historians note has this pegged two months after Precipice, shortly before the "Tholian Webb"....in February of 2268. By my estimation that is in the range of "Return to Tomorrow".....all the way up to (but not including) "The Paradise Syndrome"....as that episode takes so long to unfold. The note about it happening in February is probably the easiest to peg, but shortly before "Tholian Webb" is more like months....

 

[ryan123450]

I have The Stars Look Down ending in late March. That is in that range of episodes. But I have The Tholian Web some months after that, in October. Doesn't the entirety of the next novel take place before The Tholian Web?

 

[Idran]

Yeah, that part of the Historian's Note for "The Stars Look Down" is outright wrong because a later book in the series is explicitly in-text immediately before the Tholian Web. Not to spoil too much, but we see what the USS Defiant was doing just before its disappearance, @Jbarney.

 

[Jbarney]

Thanks for the responses....ya, right after I posted last night (After finishing The Stars Look Down) I grabbed What Judgments Come off my book shelf. I am at work right now and will avoid putting anything in the timeline until I am done with the current novel, but I wonder if there is a way to smooth things out "a bit". "Paradise Syndrome" is a bit of a problem and we should account for the last section of The Stars Look Down, as that is supposed to happen four weeks after the main part of the story. I am talking about the last scene, where Quinn goes back to drinking on Vanguard.

For what it is worth, What Judgments Come has implied a couple of times that it does not start immediately after the last section of The Stars Look Down,.....but weeks after. Quinn has been been drinking his life away for some time again. I will play with the placements a bit....but the implication is that a good chunk of time could have unfolded between the two stories.

Of course, I am not even a 100 pages into What Judgments Come, but we'll see.

 

[Idran]

There's not really any smoothing necessary. There are events explicitly set significantly after the end of "The Stars Look Down" that are literally the immediate prelude of "Tholian Web". They just made a mistake in the Historian's Note for "The Stars Look Down".

You're right about the time gap, but you can just ignore that part of the Historian's Note.

 

[Jbarney]

Far enough into What Judgments Come where I see what you mean about the Historians note from The Stars Look Down being the main problem.

 

[Jbarney]

My reading blitz continues.....I got through a large amount of After The Fall today. This is significant for me, as I have selectively read a few of the "Nemesis" time period books, knowing that so many of them are linked together from here on out. Peter David's historian's note at the beginning says this one ends a week or so in the lead up to "Nemesis".

I'm still so far behind, despite my commitment to catch up.

I consider it a personal victory though, as After The Fall keeps my foot in the door with respect to inching toward the series I really want to jump into. Destiny. Titan. Etc. I know a couple of things, but pretty curious about the post Nemesis Treklit universe.

 

[Jbarney]

I just finished The Good That Men Do and it certainly has an interesting take on some of the events of the timeline....

 

[Jbarney]

So.....on The Good That Men Do.....I am curious as to what other's reaction is to trek lit effectively (literally) re-writing some of the material established in "These Are The Voyages". A primary thought for me is how the end of ENT was handled, that episode is almost universally looked at with a collective shrug of the shoulders....

However, on the timeline stuff involved, TGTMD effectively moves all of the "accepted" historical scenes from "TATV" and 2161 and places them chronologically in early 2155. I think this is cleaner because "TATV" was such an awkward way to end ENT. I have not read the rest of the ENT books from this era yet, but just wondering about what other people think.

 

[Christopher]

However, on the timeline stuff involved, TGTMD effectively moves all of the "accepted" historical scenes from "TATV" and 2161 and places them chronologically in early 2155. I think this is cleaner because "TATV" was such an awkward way to end ENT. I have not read the rest of the ENT books from this era yet, but just wondering about what other people think.

I think it's hard to justify in-universe -- I haven't even tried to touch it in my ENT novels -- but it does help clarify some oddities of TATV, which I think was originally meant to be set in 2155 and hastily rewritten when the series was cancelled. Like the fact that nobody's been promoted, or that there's no mention of the Earth-Romulan War having happened in the interim. The episode's events just don't seem like they belong in 2161. So revealing that they actually didn't helps account for that clumsiness, though it raises plenty of other questions.

 

[Jbarney]

I think I'm leaning heavily toward moving TATV to 2155, as the chances that era being explored again on screen are minimal, and the exploration of that time period in the novels gives so much more back ground depth. One of the reasons I enjoy reading the novels so much.

I look forward to reading the rest of the post ENT books.

 

[Idran]

I think I'm leaning heavily toward moving TATV to 2155, as the chances that era being explored again on screen are minimal, and the exploration of that time period in the novels gives so much more back ground depth. One of the reasons I enjoy reading the novels so much.

I didn't even do that in my timeline; I just stuck it in the middle of "The Pegasus" since the whole thing is just a holodeck simulation in the middle of that episode anyway.

 

[Christopher]

I didn't even do that in my timeline; I just stuck it in the middle of "The Pegasus" since the whole thing is just a holodeck simulation in the middle of that episode anyway.

Although it's very hard to reconcile with the actual events of "The Pegasus."

 

[Jbarney]

I didn't even do that in my timeline; I just stuck it in the middle of "The Pegasus" since the whole thing is just a holodeck simulation in the middle of that episode anyway.

Yah, I understand that and have even thought about that on and off.

While TGTMD does not provide "new" information, it does to me, because I just read it for the first time. Reading Kobayashi Maru right now, and the events and dates of those two novels are an effort to smooth out the roughness that TATV created. The "resurrection" of Trip appears to be a thread that moves through the rest of the Ent relaunch novels, and that is sorta central to the story. Putting it totally as a holodeck sequences works too, and on some level, that is what the writers of The Good That Men Do did as well. Just this time, Jake and Nog are viewing the correct history, from sometime in the early 25th century. By the way, did anyone try to nail down a specific date on that part of the story? The Jake and Nog portions?

 

[Idran]

By the way, did anyone try to nail down a specific date on that part of the story? The Jake and Nog portions?

I honestly don't think it's possible to do that? There's so little given in it, I think you'd pretty much have to make up a number.

Not that there's any issue with doing that, of course, I just don't think there's even a decade derivable from the text, let alone a year. Not from what I remember, at least.

 

[Jbarney]

No, it was annoyingly devoid of references to anything that could represent a span of time between the end of DS9 and whenever the early 25th century was. There were even a couple of scenes where Jake and Nog joke about their old bones, but it was written in a way that it could be two early middle aged guys verbalizing thoughts on soft middle age, or they could've been legit advanced in years. Just not sure.....

On a totally different note, I am wondering how the rest of the ENT novels treat the Coridan situation. I mean the planet was basically decimated by the warp engine attack.... How the other novels refer to it would be a neat way of nailing down how they treat the TGTMD vs TATV issues touched on here. On a secondary level, I hope that other novels have touched on this event, as it certainly seems as "huge" a news story as the formation of the "Coalition of Planets". TGTMD pretty much has the Romulan attack on Coridan as early 2155.....not to mention any references to how long Trip has been "dead".

Good discussion.

 

[Christopher]

Just this time, Jake and Nog are viewing the correct history, from sometime in the early 25th century. By the way, did anyone try to nail down a specific date on that part of the story? The Jake and Nog portions?

I guessed c. 2440 in my chronology, since Jake's age seemed close to what it was in "The Visitor" (which I have as c. 2447). But I may have to revise that, since it says it's "not long ago" that Section 31 was exposed, and Control puts a firm date on that event.

On a totally different note, I am wondering how the rest of the ENT novels treat the Coridan situation. I mean the planet was basically decimated by the warp engine attack.... How the other novels refer to it would be a neat way of nailing down how they treat the TGTMD vs TATV issues touched on here. On a secondary level, I hope that other novels have touched on this event, as it certainly seems as "huge" a news story as the formation of the "Coalition of Planets". TGTMD pretty much has the Romulan attack on Coridan as early 2155.....not to mention any references to how long Trip has been "dead".

My ENT novels are set in the same continuity as the preceding 4-novel sequence that started with TGTMD. Therefore, they presume that events occurred as depicted therein.

 

[JD]

No, it was annoyingly devoid of references to anything that could represent a span of time between the end of DS9 and whenever the early 25th century was. There were even a couple of scenes where Jake and Nog joke about their old bones, but it was written in a way that it could be two early middle aged guys verbalizing thoughts on soft middle age, or they could've been legit advanced in years. Just not sure.....

On a totally different note, I am wondering how the rest of the ENT novels treat the Coridan situation. I mean the planet was basically decimated by the warp engine attack.... How the other novels refer to it would be a neat way of nailing down how they treat the TGTMD vs TATV issues touched on here. On a secondary level, I hope that other novels have touched on this event, as it certainly seems as "huge" a news story as the formation of the "Coalition of Planets". TGTMD pretty much has the Romulan attack on Coridan as early 2155.....not to mention any references to how long Trip has been "dead".

Good discussion.

It had never even occurred to me that there would be any question about this issue, I had just assumed TGTMD was in the Novelverse and so the books would just follow it's lead.