A Lit-verse based TOS chronology

[ryan123450]

I think we all have our own little quirky 'logics' which make sense to us and which are fun to figure out and think threw, but no one else would have thought to go with. I know I certainly do.

I'm still left with the daunting prospect of realizing that there are stories which specify the minimum length of time since the previous adventure out there and I've no accounted for that at all.

 

[Idran]

According to the Voyages of Imagination timeline one Ceti Alpha V year equals 1.2 Earth years, so six Ceti Alpha V months should roughly translate to 7.2 Earth months, of course under the presumption that Khan was refering to Ceti months.

That also, of course, presumes that Khan determined a month by dividing up the Ceti Alpha V year up into 12 parts rather than by counting a certain number of Ceti Alpha V days, or by the orbital period of a moon.

Though I suppose that if it had a moon that would make the misidentification in TWOK even more unbelievable, since that would mean two pairs of bodies similar enough to one another to be confused for each other instead of just one pair. So that's probably circumstantial evidence enough to rule out either 5 or 6 having a moon.

Unless perhaps 5 had a small moon, 6 didn't, the moon was shattered by the disaster (small to excuse how the remains and/or debris wouldn't have been noticeable), and that was further evidence to support the misidentification...

 

[Jinn]

I think we all have our own little quirky 'logics' which make sense to us and which are fun to figure out and think threw, but no one else would have thought to go with. I know I certainly do.

I'm still left with the daunting prospect of realizing that there are stories which specify the minimum length of time since the previous adventure out there and I've no accounted for that at all.

There should be some sort of database for that.

That also, of course, presumes that Khan determined a month by dividing up the Ceti Alpha V year up into 12 parts rather than by counting a certain number of Ceti Alpha V days, or by the orbital period of a moon.

Though I suppose that if it had a moon that would make the misidentification in TWOK even more unbelievable, since that would mean two pairs of bodies similar enough to one another to be confused for each other instead of just one pair. So that's probably circumstantial evidence enough to rule out either 5 or 6 having a moon.

Unless perhaps 5 had a small moon, 6 didn't, the moon was shattered by the disaster (small to excuse how the remains and/or debris wouldn't have been noticeable), and that was further evidence to support the misidentification...

Or maybe Khan had a working clock on the Botany Bay and he was actually refering to human months. So, I guess this statement can be understood the way it works best with the rest of the timeline

 

[Idran]

Haha, yeah, that's probably the best way to go; I just like being thorough when it comes to potential troubles or alternatives.

(I ran into a similar issue myself not long ago with trying to fit Kes being 3 years 2 months old in "Before and After" and her 2nd birthday in "Twisted". "Must be Ocampan time!" )

 

[Jinn]

Haha, yeah, that's probably the best way to go; I just like being thorough when it comes to potential troubles or alternatives.

(I ran into a similar issue myself not long ago with trying to fit Kes being 3 years 2 months old in "Before and After" and her 2nd birthday in "Twisted". "Must be Ocampan time!" )

Actually Ocampa live as long as humans, they just count different and Starfleet was too lazy to assume that a completely alien species might just have years spanning a different time than human years.

 

[ryan123450]

I started this thread on the TOS forum http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-chronological-question.284218/#post-11778254 to see about finding any references in at least the episodes themselves to time stated to be taken up before or afterwards by other missions. Christopher ended up helping me make one slight adjustment to my timeline.

 

[Jinn]

I started this thread on the TOS forum http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-chronological-question.284218/#post-11778254 to see about finding any references in at least the episodes themselves to time stated to be taken up before or afterwards by other missions. Christopher ended up helping me make one slight adjustment to my timeline.

That's a great idea!

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I can't believe I missed this one the first time through. In 'Foundations Book Two', the Enterprise returned to Beta III to drop Scotty off to help with the dismantling of the Landru computer. He notes that the Enterprise is on its way to rendezvous with the Lexington to pick up Ambassador Fox for their next assignment. The Enterprise is going to be gone for a week and Scotty has been there two days already. The mission with Ambassador Fox to negotiate a peace between Eminiar VII and Vendikar is supposed to last two weeks. That means that either 'Return of the Archons' and 'Arena' must be swapped or 'Arena' and 'A Taste of Armageddon' need to be moved.

 

[ryan123450]

At first glance I thought this info was going to lead to a change in my timeline @DarrenTR1970, but now that I get a change to look at it closer, I guess I don't see what you are trying to point out. I currently have

• Tomorrow is Yesterday
• Return of the Archons
• Foundations, Book 2
• A Taste of Armageddon
• Arena
• Space Seed

So I'm not sure what needs to be swapped to fit with the info from Foundations. Is your timeline different than mine in during these months?

 

[Jinn]

At first glance I thought this info was going to lead to a change in my timeline @DarrenTR1970, but now that I get a change to look at it closer, I guess I don't see what you are trying to point out. I currently have

• Tomorrow is Yesterday
• Return of the Archons
• Foundations, Book 2
• A Taste of Armageddon
• Arena
• Space Seed

So I'm not sure what needs to be swapped to fit with the info from Foundations. Is your timeline different than mine in during these months?

On your website "Arena" and "A Taste of Armageddon" are swapped, which, I guess, led to confusion.

 

[ryan123450]

O well that would explain it. On my word document on my computer they are in the correct order. I better double check to make sure there aren't any other mistakes I made.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Well that makes more sense then that I was looking at an old timeline. Off to make corrections.

 

[ryan123450]

@DarrenTR1970 pointed out to me that the framing story of Final Frontier, which supposedly takes place just after CotEoF, would make more sense taking place one episode later, after Operation: Annihilate! This would add to the storyline of Kirk being overwhelmed by death, returning to Earth, visiting his old farm, and contemplating leaving Starfleet. If you add his brother's death and the need to return his nephews to Earth to the mix, there's even more reasons for this story to make sense. And the move is very minor for the gain in story impact. This also lines up with the storyline in the TOS comic Bloodline, which has Kirk returning to Earth with his nephews at this time, and contemplating leaving Starfleet to stay with them.

 

[ryan123450]

It took me a while to find the time to figure out the implications of The Face of the Unknown to my timeline. It takes place in "mid 2269" and right before The Latter Fire, which is right before TAS. It seems Christopher meant for it to take place in June, and doesn't leave any significant gap between TOS and TAS. We know from Seekers: Second Nature that Turnabout Intruder is also in June, and Chrisopher states in the Acknowledgments that he considers this novel to take place two months before that novel, which is set in August. This seems to be at odds with his placement of the second episode of TAS in October in Forgotten History.

I'm going to continue leaving a several month gap between TOS and TAS, and leave The Latter Fire and the first few episodes of TAS in October. So I'll have to fudge the "mid-2269" setting. Putting this story 2 months after Second Nature creates a bit of a problem concerning Balok's species name, which Christopher gives an answer for in the Acknowledgements. But placing TFotU after Second Nature eliminates the problem in the first place. Perhaps @Chrisopher can shed some light on this. I still look forward to the annotations on this story.

The references in this book that I know of so far now link the following new books to the Litverse-

• Troublesome Minds
• Crisis of Consciousness
• A Choice of Catastrophes
  
• Starfleet Academy (DC Vol 2. Annual #2)

So now I need to place these four stories in my timeline and make sure I know if any other new stories are linked because of these. I know A Choice of Catastrophe's references The Better Man, but does that book have annotations somewhere that I can research any other links? I seem to remember something about that website being lost?

 

[Jinn]

It took me a while to find the time to figure out the implications of The Face of the Unknown to my timeline. It takes place in "mid 2269" and right before The Latter Fire, which is right before TAS. It seems Christopher meant for it to take place in June, and doesn't leave any significant gap between TOS and TAS. We know from Seekers: Second Nature that Turnabout Intruder is also in June, and Chrisopher states in the Acknowledgments that he considers this novel to take place two months before that novel, which is set in August. This seems to be at odds with his placement of the second episode of TAS in October in Forgotten History.

I'm going to continue leaving a several month gap between TOS and TAS, and leave The Latter Fire and the first few episodes of TAS in October. So I'll have to fudge the "mid-2269" setting. Putting this story 2 months after Second Nature creates a bit of a problem concerning Balok's species name, which Christopher gives an answer for in the Acknowledgements. But placing TFotU after Second Nature eliminates the problem in the first place. Perhaps @Chrisopher can shed some light on this. I still look forward to the annotations on this story.

The references in this book that I know of so far now link the following new books to the Litverse-

• Troublesome Minds
• Crisis of Consciousness
• A Choice of Catastrophes
  
• Starfleet Academy (DC Vol 2. Annual #2)

So now I need to place these four stories in my timeline and make sure I know if any other new stories are linked because of these. I know A Choice of Catastrophe's references The Better Man, but does that book have annotations somewhere that I can research any other links? I seem to remember something about that website being lost?

According to Memory Beta Crisis of Consciousness references Troublesome Minds.

 

[ryan123450]

I was reminded of a conversation we had way upthread about the mess of when Crisis of Consciousness and Troublesome Minds take place. Dave Galanter intended CoC to take place after TM but TM seems to take place late in the 5YM, and is definitely after The Immunity Syndrome and Spectre of the Gun. For some reason Memory Beta also claims it is one year after The Face of the Unknown which I'm at a loss to explain. But CoC must take place before Who Mourns for Adonais?, so there's a bit of a contradiction there. I suppose I will figure out a way to sort all that out, if I can figure out what the link to The Face of the Unknown which the Memory-Beta timeline refers to might be.

I'm also at a loss to explain the Memory-Beta timeline note on A Choice of Catastrophe's which claims it takes place after Return to Tomorrow even though the stardate was very obviously chosen to be immediately before that episode. I know stardates don't usually matter, but the authors must have picked that stardate on purpose and I wonder why, if Memory-Beta is correct, that they chose a stardate before the episode instead of after.

 

[Christopher]

It took me a while to find the time to figure out the implications of The Face of the Unknown to my timeline. It takes place in "mid 2269" and right before The Latter Fire, which is right before TAS. It seems Christopher meant for it to take place in June, and doesn't leave any significant gap between TOS and TAS. We know from Seekers: Second Nature that Turnabout Intruder is also in June, and Chrisopher states in the Acknowledgments that he considers this novel to take place two months before that novel, which is set in August. This seems to be at odds with his placement of the second episode of TAS in October in Forgotten History.

My own chronology puts "Turnabout Intruder" in May. The historian's note in Second Nature only says it takes place "a couple of months" after TI, and while "a couple" literally means "two," it's often used less precisely, so I think there's some flexibility in interpretation there.

Personally, I put Assignment: Eternity right after TI (as specified therein) and First Frontier right after that, followed by The Face of the Unknown, The Latter Fire, and then TAS. As for "Yesteryear," it's actually third in production order, but there's no single unambiguous order for TAS. I tend to go with production order, but I make adjustments where it seems reasonable for various reasons (for instance, I follow "Beyond the Farthest Star," set on the edge of the galaxy, with "One of Our Planets is Missing," set on the far fringes of the UFP, since it makes the most sense in terms of travel time). My placement of "Yesteryear" in FH was based on the chronological assumptions I made at the time, and I think I've rearranged some things since then in response to Seekers, so I've had to put Yy a bit out of order.

Putting this story 2 months after Second Nature creates a bit of a problem concerning Balok's species name, which Christopher gives an answer for in the Acknowledgements. But placing TFotU after Second Nature eliminates the problem in the first place. Perhaps @Chrisopher can shed some light on this. I still look forward to the annotations on this story.

I think that first "after" was supposed to be "before?" I just couldn't figure out a way to put it after Second Nature and still be before TAS.

The references in this book that I know of so far now link the following new books to the Litverse-

• Troublesome Minds
• Crisis of Consciousness
• A Choice of Catastrophes
  
• Starfleet Academy (DC Vol 2. Annual #2)

So now I need to place these four stories in my timeline and make sure I know if any other new stories are linked because of these.

Huh? What references are you talking about? I might have referenced Troublesome Minds or A Choice of Catastrophes, though I don't recall doing so. But I definitely didn't reference either of the others.

 

[Leto_II]

I was reminded of a conversation we had way upthread about the mess of when Crisis of Consciousness and Troublesome Minds take place. Dave Galanter intended CoC to take place after TM but TM seems to take place late in the 5YM, and is definitely after The Immunity Syndrome and Spectre of the Gun. For some reason Memory Beta also claims it is one year after The Face of the Unknown which I'm at a loss to explain. But CoC must take place before Who Mourns for Adonais?, so there's a bit of a contradiction there. I suppose I will figure out a way to sort all that out, if I can figure out what the link to The Face of the Unknown which the Memory-Beta timeline refers to might be.

It's mentioned in Christopher's acknowledgements section at the very end of The Face of the Unknown -- Lieutenant Lou Prescott from Troublesome Minds is still only an ensign in Face, presumably gaining a promotion over the intervening year or thereabouts.

I'm also at a loss to explain the Memory-Beta timeline note on A Choice of Catastrophe's which claims it takes place after Return to Tomorrow even though the stardate was very obviously chosen to be immediately before that episode. I know stardates don't usually matter, but the authors must have picked that stardate on purpose and I wonder why, if Memory-Beta is correct, that they chose a stardate before the episode instead of after.

Yeah, this is something that happens from time to time, even today -- for instance, The Latter Fire possesses an opening stardate (5371.3) that falls well into the run of TAS, despite being set immediately beforehand. It's much more consistent than it used to be in decades past, but occasionally a gaffe still slips through.

My own chronology puts "Turnabout Intruder" in May. The historian's note in Second Nature only says it takes place "a couple of months" after TI, and while "a couple" literally means "two," it's often used less precisely, so I think there's some flexibility in interpretation there.

Same here -- I also have "Turnabout Intruder" taking place in mid-(-ish) May 2269, despite that "Historian's Note," whose wording-flexibility gives me some extra space to fit in Greg's Assignment: Eternity and The Weight of Worlds running from late May to early June, followed by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens' Prime Directive taking up the entire remaining summer and fall, into early October, where The Face of the Unknown and The Latter Fire pick things up again, followed immediately by TAS proper.

But Christopher's placement of First Frontier post-"Turnabout" has me intrigued -- I originally had it taking place after the episode "Plato's Stepchildren," but now I'm thinking about moving it further down the timeline, since I can probably squeeze it in.

 

[Christopher]

But Christopher's placement of First Frontier post-"Turnabout" has me intrigued -- I originally had it taking place after the episode "Plato's Stepchildren," but now I'm thinking about moving it further down the timeline, since I can probably squeeze it in.

It's always been my habit in my chronologies to place TOS novels after the series -- and indeed after TAS -- unless there's some specific reason to put them earlier. If we treat each season as about a year, then two dozen or so adventures in that time span are more than enough already. But First Frontier naturally has to be pre-"Yesteryear" since it's described as their first return visit to the Guardian of Forever.

 

[Leto_II]

Good point -- I was following the Pocket Books Voyages of the Imagination timeline with that placement, but I forgot about that reference in the book regarding it being their first return-visit since the events of "City." (I don't think I've actually re-read it since it first came out back in 1995 or thereabouts.) Fortunately I can fit it later into my chronology pretty cleanly, as things currently stand.