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A Lit-verse based TOS chronology

While Ryan could do that (though it'd take at least a year at that speed), there were more than a couple odd choices made by the VoI timeliners, so you'd still at least want to go through the books from 1968-2006 to check their placement. (And of course any timeline that was made would probably still be disagreed on in parts by other timeliners, since a lot of books are just too vague or there's too much contradiction around them to be definitively placed in one specific spot; just look at how much disagreement there's been in this thread just for Treklit-connected books in the TOS era :p)
 
Why not start with the timelime already created in Voyages of the Imagination and go from there. Do one book a week since that timeline and then you'll have it done in no time.

If only there were more hours in the day. Right now I'm spending what little Trek-related hobbie time in can squeeze in working on my "Complete Litverse" reading page, which will merge all my other reading lists into a massive all-series 800+ entry page. This thread is part of that process, making sure I get everything in the "best" order.

I have several other Trek related projects I'm dying to get to besides my timeline related stuff as well.

While Ryan could do that (though it'd take at least a year at that speed), there were more than a couple odd choices made by the VoI timeliners, so you'd still at least want to go through the books from 1968-2006 to check their placement. (And of course any timeline that was made would probably still be disagreed on in parts by other timeliners, since a lot of books are just too vague or there's too much contradiction around them to be definitively placed in one specific spot; just look at how much disagreement there's been in this thread just for Treklit-connected books in the TOS era :p)

Yes, no one else's interpretation of this stuff will line up with anyone's own thoughts. There's just no definative answers to many of these tiny issues. That makes it more fun in a way though.
 
Ryan
I had a reply to your question about the novels you mentioned as well as an update to the 'New Earth' timeline but it didn't post and now I have to get ready for work. I'll try again later today.
 
Ryan
I haven’t read ‘The Pandora Principle’ or ‘Dwellers in the Crucible’ so I don’t know where they would be placed in the timeline in regards to ‘New Earth’.
However I do have a possible solution – ‘Gateways: Challenger’ and ‘Gateways: Chainmail’ both take place a month after ‘New Earth: Challenger’ which I have in June 2281 and don’t feature the Enterprise so they can be ignored.
Memory Beta and VOTI place both ‘The Pandora Principle’ and ‘Dwellers in the Crucible’ in 2281 as per the Okuda’s chronology’s having Saavik entering Starfleet in 2281. If ‘The Pandora Principle’ is set at the beginning of the semester then it is c. September 2281. (The August 10, 2218 (2281) FASA date is just a placeholder on my part, you can choose to ignore it.) If ‘Dwellers in the Crucible’ is set sometime during Saavik’s first year at the Academy then it could be conceivably be placed at any point between say c. Sept. 2281 and c. June 2282 if it’s a standard school year; unless there is a specific date saying that it is ‘X’ number of days/weeks since the previous book. I would place it in early 2282 seeing as there are no other stories in that year except for ‘Just Another Little Training Cruise’.
If, in ‘Wagon Train to the Stars’ the characters are approximating 9 months there, 6 months back, then with a little fudging, you could have the Enterprise leaving Belle Terre in June 2281 just after ‘Challenger’ and, with a little of Scotty’s engineering magic, have the Enterprise arrive in 3-4 months just in time for the start of the Academy school year.
Hope that helps.

2279
OCTOBER – 2279
October 31, 2279
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 10 – The Captain’s Meeting

NOVEMBER – 2279
Stardate: 7969.2
Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again – Part 2: Chapters 9-13

DECEMBER – 2279
December 1, 2279
Launch of the Belle Terre expedition taking into account ‘Mere Anarchy’.

C. JANUARY? – 2280
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 5 – Note: 3 months earlier. I’ve given this one some thought. The flashback is supposed to be set shortly after ‘The Captain’s Meeting’, or during the launch of the Belle Terre mission according to the dialogue; yet the caption says, ‘Three months earlier’, which would place it one month into the expedition. Somewhere I think captions got swapped and this chapter is supposed to be 4 ½ months earlier and Chapters 1-4, 6-9, 11 are supposed to be three months later. It could be an editorial mistake or just sloppy writing.

C. MID–MARCH – 2280
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 1-4, 6-9, 11 – Note: 4½ months since the expedition launched.

APRIL – 2280
April 11, 2280
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 12 – Note: 5 months, 11 days, 16 hours since the expedition launched if the expedition launched on December 1, 2279.

April 27, 2280
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 13-18 – Note: 16 days later.

C. MAY/JUNE – 2280
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapter 19 – Note: ‘Weeks’ later.

C. MID–JULY – 2280
New Earth: Wagon Train To The Stars – Chapters 20-25 – Note: The next day. According to VOTI the Belle Terre expedition arrives at its destination in ‘July’. This assumes that the expedition launched on November 1, 2270 immediately after ‘The Captain’s Meeting’ in Chapter 10, and arrived July 1, 2280. However, since the start of the expedition has been moved up to December to accommodate ‘Mere Anarchy’, the earliest they can arrive is mid to-late July, which still fits the ‘July’ placement in VOTI.

C. LATE JULY/LATE–AUGUST – 2280
New Earth: Belle Terre – Note: Spans 12 days. Various characters say they arrived ‘2-4 weeks’ ago. I take that to mean the expedition arrived in orbit 4 weeks ago, spent two weeks scanning the planet for a suitable landing site and two weeks setting up the colony.

C. MID-LATE OCTOBER – 2280
New Earth: Rough Trails – Chapters 1-17 – Note: Again various characters say it’s been 6 weeks/2 months after 'Belle Terre' and runs approximately 4-5 days. It concludes 2-3 months later when Chekov’s transport is due to arrive.

C. DECEMBER – 2280
New Earth: Rough Trails – Chapter 18 – Note: 6 weeks later. VOTI places these events in 'December'; Chekov’s transport is due to arrive in a few days to take him to the Reliant.

2281
C. JANUARY – 2281
The starship Peleliu sets out for Belle Terre. Note: I’ve decided that the ‘six months’ reference must be when they set out towards Belle Terre.

C. MARCH – 2281
New Earth: The Flaming Arrow – Note: In Chapter 1 Kirk thinks to himself that Chekov has been gone 3 months and that they’ve been defending the colony for ‘nearly a year’. If Chekov left 3 months ago it’s sometime in March. If it’s ‘nearly a year’, then it’s closer to June. One possible explanation is that Kirk is rounding up and it’s closer to 9-10 months, so that fits a March date.

New Earth: Challenger – Chapters 1, 3, 5, 7-8, 10. Note: I take it to mean they’re three months into their journey and that these chapters span from this point forward to their arrival at Belle Terre in Chapter 12.

C. JUNE – 2281
New Earth: Thin Air – Note: At one point Spock says it’s been ‘3 months, 6 days’ since the events of ‘The Flaming Arrow’.

Stardates: 4662.1-6877.1
New Earth: Challenger – Note: Without any other reference points I’m setting Chapters 2, 4, 6, 9, 11-12 shortly after ‘Thin Air’.
Chapters 12-24, Epilogue – The Peleliu arrives and the chapters sync up for the rest of the story. Chapter 15 is set two days after Chapters 12-14 and Chapter 20 is set 16+ days after Chapters 15-19 during which time the Peleliu is rebuilt and renamed ‘Challenger’.

C. JULY – 2281
Gateways: Challenger and Gateways: Chainmail are set one month after the end of New Earth: Challenger.

C. SEPTEMBER – 2281
The Enterprise returns from the ‘Belle Terre’ expedition.
The Pandora Principle

C. 2282?
Dwellers in the Crucible
 
However I do have a possible solution – ‘Gateways: Challenger’ and ‘Gateways: Chainmail’ both take place a month after ‘New Earth: Challenger’ which I have in June 2281 and don’t feature the Enterprise so they can be ignored.

Umm, you mean Chainmail and "Exodus," right? Those are the names of the two Challenger installments in Gateways.
 
Darren, I think your understanding of this era is right on target. I've not read Dwellers in the Crucible, but glancing through it, there seems to be one reference to the fact that Saavik is one of the "new crop of cadets" on the Enterprise. I'm not even sure that implies it's her first year, simply her first time aboard the Enterprise for on ship training. As far as I can tell Dwellers could happen anytime between The Pandora Principle and STII.

There could very well be more chronological info I didn't see, but I see no reason at the moment not to accept at least the 2282 idea for it's dating.

Edit to add: I suppose Dwellers would have to take place before Just Another Little Training Cruise. Before that story in 2282 sounds good to me.
 
Here's the final third of the post-TOS era. This has been fun and I'm glad someone suggested we keep going after the 5YM. I didn't think there would be much to discuss, but I was totally wrong. I've reworked alot of specific items from where I thought they went before this discussion, and it's allowed me to set exact years on things so that placing stuff in the future will be more accurate. And I've personally realized I disagree with several things I've found on the Memory-Beta timeline.

I'm still undecided about when to place Probe and Debt of Honor, but since we've already talked about them, I will just leave them out of this section.

2287

  • The Final Frontier
  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 1-12 (DC Continuity)
  • In the Name of Honor (Note 1)
  • The Rift (DC Continuity)
2288

  • Foul Deeds Will Rise (Note 2)
  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 13-15, 17-19, 22-24 (DC Continuity) (Note 3)
  • Raise the Defiant (DC Comics Volume 2 Special #2, Part 1) (DC Continuity) (Note 4)
2289

  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 25-28, 30-33 (DC Continuity) (Note 5)
2290

  • Forged in Fire (Note 6)
  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 35-45 (DC Continuity) (Note 7)
2291

  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 46-48 (DC Continuity)
  • Cacophony (Note 8)
  • Blaise of Glory (DC Comics Volume 2 Special #1, Part 1) (DC Continuity) (Note 9)
  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 49-51 (DC Continuity)
  • Mere Anarchy: The Blood Dimmed Tide
2292


  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 65 (DC Continuity)
  • A Question of Loyalty (DC Comics Volume 2 Special #2, Part 2) (DC Continuity) (Note 10)
  • DC Comics Volume 2 Issues 66-72 (DC Continuity)
  • Convergence (DC Comics Volume 2 Annual #6, TNG Annual #6) (DC Continuity)
  • Bloodline (Wildstorm Special)
2293

  • The Undiscovered Country
  • Klingons: Blood Will Tell
  • Assignment: Eternity
  • Best Destiny
  • Sarek
  • The Ashes of Eden
  • The Captain's Table: War Dragons
  • The Last Roundup

  1. The first storyline of DC Comics Vol 2 and In the Name of Honor both claim to be the first mission of the Enterprise-A after STV. If one were so inclined (as I am) to include both in their personal continuity (since that comic run is so amazing), I would place the DC Comics story first. It features an antagonistic Klingon government putting a bounty out on Kirk, while In the Name of Honor features the Klingons moving toward peace with the Federation and Gorkon coming to power. It's really just one or two lines in the novel that set it directly after STV, and it wouldn't matter to the plot if it came a few months afterwards.
  2. I went with Memory-Beta's order of books and comics for this year. It's number of comics in these first two years ended up in the same range of what I figured for the spread of comics issues over the other years. Foul Deeds Will Rise seems to placed among the comics according to it's stardate, which I'm ok with. That does bring up an interesting note though. Memory-Beta seems to go with the idea that the DC comics are ordered by release date, and not by stardate. That would make them jump around in places, I'm sure. I haven't looked too closely at that, but I wonder if the creators meant for stories farther along in the run which have lower stardates to actually be set in the "past".
  3. All the issues missing in this section and all the other DC sections are because those issues are either 5YM tales or are not specifically linked to the other issues by references or shared characters. I would include most of them in my personal continuity, and they would take place in the obvious years, but they aren't included on my Lit-verse Reading List since they aren't specifically linked.
  4. Another USS Defiant comes popping out. I think that makes three. This one seems to be placed by stardate in MB.
  5. These issues all take place before Sulu leaves for the Excelsior, so they are all in 89. The amount of issues in this year lines up with the amount in all the other years again pretty well.
  6. Forged in Fire and the first few issues of this next section of DC comics both claim to tell the tale of Sulu's first mission on the Excelsior. Reconciling that is left to all my fellow continuity nerds.
  7. Memory-Beta places the remaining 40ish issues of the DC series in 2290. The previous years have had around 12. I decided to spread them out up til alot closer to The Undiscovered Country. This works well with the Saavik issue mentioned below. Since I didn't include every issue, only the ones specifically linked together in some way, I ended up dividing them a bit differently than I would have if all of them had been included, but it's still pretty close to even.
  8. Just randomly slid this in place here based on it's placement in the Memory-Beta timeline.
  9. This one seems to be placed by Memory-Beta according to stardate. I suppose I should rearrange the one's MB puts by stardate into their release order, if that's the paradigm we're going with for everything else.
  10. This is Saavik's final appearance in DC, and though she never appears again in the main series as it is released, Memory-Beta pushes this one to the end of the run, where it is supposed to be. This is Valeris's third year at the Academy, and since Saavik stops appearing in the series after this, I assume it should be placed according to release date, and this gives credence to my theory that the series should be spaced out over the time until TUC, not all crammed into 2290.
Perhaps still a bit of tweaking to do here, but I want to see what others can point out. You guys have been so so very helpful to me on this project and I'm sad this is my last big timeline post.:sigh:
 
According to my own chronology, In the Name of Honor should go sometime after DC V2 issue 17-18, "Partners." I don't exactly remember why, but maybe it's because ITNOH features peace talks with the Klingons while "Partners" treats a warming of relations as a hypothetical future development.

As for Foul Deeds Will Rise, dialogue places it 20 years, 4 months, 3 days after "The Conscience of the King," which would be late 2286 -- November by the assumptions made in this thread, though I go with December. Which requires disregarding the 2287 Okuda date for TFF. I put TFF in early '86.
 
Glancing back at "Partners" I'd say the politics of the situation are vague enough not to make putting ITNOH before it a big issue. I could read the crews comments about peace with the Klingons more indicative of their personal feelings rather than the political climate. Either way would be fine though, since we'd be disregarding it's few claims to be directly after STV both ways.

I could understand if the exact placement of "The Conscience of the King" from this thread made the placement of Foul Deeds Will Rise off by a few months, which could cause it to fall in the wrong year, but I'm confused by this situation. I see the book explicitly claims to be in 2288, so I wonder why Greg Cox placed TCOTC 20 years in the past. It's commonly understood to be in 2266.

So even disregarding any discussion of when TFF takes place, the book doesn't jibe with the accepted dates. I wonder if somehow Greg would pop into this thread and comment?

I also decided to move "Blaise of Glory" to where it would be according to release order, which ends up putting it after Mere Anarchy. And since I ignored the stardate for "A Question of Loyalty" and put it in release order, I really should do the same for the other story in that issue, "Raise the Defiant". I put it right before AQOL.
 
I don't think "A Question of Loyalty" should be in release order. It seems to me that it's set later than the regular issues -- near the end of the Enterprise's exploration tour, when it's about to be placed on a more limited local-space patrol. Remember, the beginning of TUC implied that the crew hadn't been serving together for a while and had been brought back together for a special mission at Spock's request. So the post-TFF exploration mission must've ended at some point a couple of years before the movie, with many of the crew going their separate ways for a while. AQoL seems to me to be leading up to that transition. So I think it belongs after the rest.

In my chrono, I have the comics go up to the latter half of 2290, and The Blood-Dimmed Tide and "A Question of Loyalty" are in 2291.
 
Hello there,
Back from a brief break and I didn’t have access to my computer or notes, so this is just a quick write up of my thoughts on Diane Duane’s novels. It’s best that these books be read in order of publication as characters and events reference each other across the novels.

2276
C. Spring 2276
Stardate: 9250
The Wounded Sky – Note: A passing reference is made to the events in this novel in ‘Doctor’s Orders’. Placement in arbitrary.

JULY – 2276
July 31+
Doctor’s Orders – Note: Begins on the eve of 1000 year anniversary of Switzerland’s independence and the formation of the Swiss government, which is traditionally dated to August 1, 1291. This would place this novel in 2291, the latest any original series novel chronology wise. The Enterprise departs on August 1 and it takes three days to reach the planet and the survey is expected to take 2-3 weeks. Kirk’s birthday was ‘not that long ago’. (pg. 17)

C. SEPTEMBER – 2276
Stardates: 304.6–2816.3
My Enemy, My Ally – Note: Date established by working backwards from ‘The Romulan Way’ and ‘Swordhunt’. ‘Swordhunt’ is set in November (pg. 27); ‘The Romulan Way’ was ‘two months’ ago (pg. 21); ‘My Enemy, My Ally’ was ‘one standard year ago’ (pg. 58). Subtract 2 months from November 2277 to get September 2277 for ‘The Romulan Way’ then subtract 1 year from September 2277 to get September 2276 for ‘My Enemy, My Ally’. The novel spans approximately 2 weeks and ends with the Enterprise taking two months to travel back to Earth for repairs and replenishment. (Chapter 20)

C. DECEMBER – 2276
Stardates: 7416.664–7468.55
Spock’s World – Note: The novel opens up with the Enterprise having spent approximately 1 month in Earth’s orbit being refitted and resupplied. ‘The Motion Picture’ was ‘2 years ago’ (pg. 7). References to ‘The Wounded Sky’, ‘Doctor’s Orders’ and ‘My Enemy, My Ally’ (pg. 13). Spans approximately 10 days/2 weeks so possibly into January 2277.

2277
C. SEPTEMBER – 2277
The Romulan Way – Note: ‘My Enemy, My Ally’ was ‘one standard year ago’. ‘The Enterprise Incident’ was 8 years ago (‘He sat on the far side of Perry's desk, flanked by Jim Kirk and Spock, listening while the Admiral outlined a plan as complex and dangerous as the cloaking device theft of eight years ago’. -pg. 176). McCoy is 50 (‘50 year old wiz kid’ - pg. 54).

C. NOVEMBER – 2277
Swordhunt – Note: Set in November (pg. 27). Leads into . . .
Honor Blade

C. DECEMBER – 2277
The Empty Chair – Note: These three novels span approximately 4-6 weeks. So November–December 2277. The epilogue is set two months later, after the conclusion of the Enterprise’s second five year mission.

I’ll have more later in regards to 2287-2293. I differ in the placement of some of the novels in that I agree with Christopher in that I don’t include the first run of DC’s ‘Star Trek’ comics between ‘The Wrath Of Khan’ and ‘The Final Frontier’, so my placements are about a year or so off from yours.
 
^You put too great an interval between The Wounded Sky and My Enemy, My Ally. When Lia Burke first appears in Ch. 2 of MEMA (p. 21), Kirk says he thought she was "recalled from leave for that last mission of ours," which is a reference to her introduction in TWS (Ch. 6, p. 99). That means that MEMA is the mission immediately after TWS.
 
Christopher
I see your point. VOTI/Memory Beta as well as two-three other timelines I've downloaded over the years all put 'MEMA' before 'Doctor's Orders'. If you were to do that that would place it 2 1/2 months or so before the July date in 'Doctor's Orders' which would contradict the 'one standard year'/November date given in 'The Romulan Way' and 'Swordhunt'.
There's no really easy way to reconcile the dates, so I just squint and say that Kirk is remembering a different shore leave.
 
Hold on, though, there's another problem: Spock's World comes after The Romulan Way. It came out a year later. I suppose the text is a little ambiguous -- I was sure there were some references to TRW in SW, but I'm not finding them now -- yet since the books came out in that order, it stands to reason that they take place in that order. So Doctor's Orders could go sometime in that one-year gap between MEMA and TRW. That's where I have it in my '80s-continuity list. First TWS and MEMA, then DO some while later, then TRW not long after that, then SW, and so on.
 
Hold on, though, there's another problem: Spock's World comes after The Romulan Way. It came out a year later. I suppose the text is a little ambiguous -- I was sure there were some references to TRW in SW, but I'm not finding them now -- yet since the books came out in that order, it stands to reason that they take place in that order.
It's definitely better read in that order - I think the historical sections in Spock's World work better if you've read the historical sections in TRW already. Like you, I thought there were references in the present day as well, but I'm not finding any either. (Maybe by implication with Nahrat's promotion?)

That's where I have it in my '80s-continuity list. First TWS and MEMA, then DO some while later, then TRW not long after that, then SW, and so on.
I have yet to come up with a chronology for the books that I'm happy with. Spock's World and The Empty Chair are definitely post-TMP. MEMA, Swordhunt, and Honor Blade are definitely pre-TMP.

(Even in The Bloodwing Voyages. It fixed the ranks, but forgot to fix the other textual evidence like uniform colors, Inieau's new-and-different engines being a pattern for Constitution-class refits, and Chekov's position on the bridge.)

If the omnibus had actually made everything consistent I could run with publication order like you. Alas, it didn't. :scream:
 
It's definitely better read in that order - I think the historical sections in Spock's World work better if you've read the historical sections in TRW already.

Good point. The SW historical chapters build on foundations established in the TRW historical chapters, particularly about the Sundering.

Like you, I thought there were references in the present day as well, but I'm not finding any either. (Maybe by implication with Nahrat's promotion?)

I thought that would be something, but it could work either way, since he's already a lieutenant by the time TRW happens.


I have yet to come up with a chronology for the books that I'm happy with. Spock's World and The Empty Chair are definitely post-TMP. MEMA, Swordhunt, and Honor Blade are definitely pre-TMP.

(Even in The Bloodwing Voyages. It fixed the ranks, but forgot to fix the other textual evidence like uniform colors, Inieau's new-and-different engines being a pattern for Constitution-class refits, and Chekov's position on the bridge.)

If the omnibus had actually made everything consistent I could run with publication order like you. Alas, it didn't. :scream:

I avoid that problem because I don't try to fit the Duane books into the modern Trek universe; I keep them separate as part of the '80s continuity they were written for, which includes the assumption of a second 5-year mission pre-TMP, so that TRW can be 8 years after "The Enterprise Incident" yet still pre-movie. So I stick with the original versions of MEMA and TRW instead of the omnibus versions. Honestly, I feel the omnibus revision added more problems than it fixed. But I go with the omnibus version of Swordhunt (incorporating the so-called Honor Blade), because the original decision to set it pre-TMP -- despite being set after Spock's World -- made no sense.
 
Christopher
How did you structure your second five year mission? I toyed with the idea way back when before the chronology came out and this is what I came up with
2265-2270 - first five-year mission
2270-2271 - minor refit
2271-2276 - second five-year mission
2276-2279 - major refit
2279 - TMP (keeping it 300 years like Decker says)
2283 - TWOK (same as the year on the bottle of Romulan ale)
Part of me would like to have seen the Okudas try it this way. On the other hand, it probably would have created as many problems as it would have solved.
 
Christopher
How did you structure your second five year mission? I toyed with the idea way back when before the chronology came out and this is what I came up with
2265-2270 - first five-year mission
2270-2271 - minor refit
2271-2276 - second five-year mission
2276-2279 - major refit
2279 - TMP (keeping it 300 years like Decker says)
2283 - TWOK (same as the year on the bottle of Romulan ale)

The way I approach the '80s continuity is to acknowledge the assumptions that were made by the authors who wrote it at the time. I treat it, collectively, as a historical text and take it as it was rather than trying to modify it with anachronistic notions. At the time these books were written, TNG and the Chronology hadn't come along to establish that TOS had taken place in the 2260s. On the contrary, several of the '80s novels, notably The Final Reflection and Final Frontier, were built on the assumptions of the Star Trek Spaceflight Chronology, which placed TOS in the first decade of the 2200s. Not too many '80s-continuity novels were explicitly modeled on the SFC, but enough of them were that I count it as the chronological basis of the loose '80s continuity.

Here's how I put it in the Continuity of Days Gone By thread: "My intent is to represent the '80s novel continuity as it would've been interpreted at the time it was active, in the period of about 1981-1990." Which is why my list excludes the Lost Era sequels that were published in the '90s and incorporated TNG-era notions of chronology.
 
Hold on, though, there's another problem: Spock's World comes after The Romulan Way. It came out a year later. I suppose the text is a little ambiguous -- I was sure there were some references to TRW in SW, but I'm not finding them now -- yet since the books came out in that order, it stands to reason that they take place in that order.
I read Spock's World a while back without having read any of the other Diane Duane books, and I don't remember there being any references I didn't understand. I guess there might be some subtle ones that I didn't notice, but there I don't remember being anything that made me go, "Hey, I wonder if that is a reference to another book, maybe I should read it too".
 
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