A Klingon here, a Klingon there, a Klingon everywhere

[Itisnotlogical]

Has anyone noticed that a damn lot of Star Trek movies are about the Klingons? Search for Spock, Klingons make their first major appearance on the big screen, okay, cool. Voyage Home, no Klingons there. The Final Frontier, Romulans take a back seat to the Klingons. The Undiscovered Country, they're starting to sell Klingon-flavored toothpaste to advertise their movies. Generations: It's a bird, it's a plane, it's... more Klingons! Alright, we get the damn point Paramount. Klingons are EVIL. VILLAINS. STOP MAKING KLINGON MOVIES. FOREVER. Instead, why not use a different villain, like the Breen, or Romulans, or god damn Soulja Boy?

 

[Jon1701]

BoT aside, I never really cared for the Romulans.

I found them quite dull for the most part. In TNG, they had a cool looking ship, but horrendous outfits. The Klingons are only really pat of the plot in 4 movies out of 11 (ok, four and a half), I didn't feel they were that overused.

I don't think they were that evil though. Too much moustache twirling IMO. If they bring them back next time they really have to be evil. Scary. Dangerous.

Eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiil...

 

[Christopher]

Has anyone noticed that a damn lot of Star Trek movies are about the Klingons? Search for Spock, Klingons make their first major appearance on the big screen, okay, cool.

Excuse me?? These gentlemen from Star Trek: The Motion Picture would like a word with you.

Voyage Home, no Klingons there.

This ambassador would also like a word with you.

Instead, why not use a different villain, like the Breen, or Romulans, or god damn Soulja Boy?

You mean like V'Ger, Khan, the Whale Probe, the Sha Ka Ree God, Admiral Cartwright, Tolian Soran, the Borg, the Son'a, or the Remans?

 

[Too Much Fun]

I never want to see the Breen again. Their stupid incomprehensible dialogue was a cute joke at first, but it quickly got annoying. The only thing they had going for them was the rather striking design of their helmets, and without even knowing much about Star Wars I can tell that it was just a rip-off of the Bobba Fett character.

Someone did mention in another thread that the new Star Trek movie was the first Star Trek movie in a long time with absolutely no Klingon presence (since even if they weren't fighting Klingons, the crew of the Enterprise had Worf around for the previous four movies) and I think their lack of presence in the new one (even though their ships were seen and they are in deleted scenes) would make bringing them back for a future installment not seem redundant.

 

[Christopher]

I never want to see the Breen again. Their stupid incomprehensible dialogue was a cute joke at first, but it quickly got annoying. The only thing they had going for them was the rather striking design of their helmets, and without even knowing much about Star Wars I can tell that it was just a rip-off of the Bobba Fett character.

Boba Fett's helmet didn't look remotely like the Breen's helmets. You're thinking of Boushh, who was actually Leia in disguise in Return of the Jedi.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

Personally, for me, there can never be enough Klingons. I just love the way the people and their culture, language, rituals and history was fleshed out over the years.

i really appreciate the different species so much more when we are given such rich detail about them.

It makes it so much more real for me. **flashing big geeky smile here**

 

[seigezunt]

TNG burned me out on Klingons.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I never want to see the Breen again. Their stupid incomprehensible dialogue was a cute joke at first, but it quickly got annoying. The only thing they had going for them was the rather striking design of their helmets, and without even knowing much about Star Wars I can tell that it was just a rip-off of the Bobba Fett character.

Boba Fett's helmet didn't look remotely like the Breen's helmets. You're thinking of Boushh, who was actually Leia in disguise in Return of the Jedi.

Yeah, like I said, my Star Wars knowledge is spotty at best, but those helmets always struck me as very Star Wars-ish and as far as I can tell, Boba Fett is the most popular helmeted character next to Darth Vader. You're right, it does resemble the second person you mentioned more than Boba Fett. Still, my point stands that characters whose most interesting characteristic is a cool helmet aren't really the ideal antagonist. We need someone with a little more personality than that.

 

[Christopher]

Actually the most interesting thing about the Breen is the mystery surrounding them. Why do they hide themselves? Why is so little known about them? Why does nobody know what they really look like (even though Kira and Dukat actually stole the uniforms from two Breen guards in "Indiscretion")? Why do they claim to be from a cold world when, according to Weyoun, they really aren't?

The Breen are going to be the focus of one of the novels in next year's Typhon Pact miniseries from Pocket Books, and all those mysteries are going to be explored.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

In my opinion, the klingons are far from being an interesting species - they are like a gang of bikers in space; thugs who speak only about their honor - a concept which they define differently in different situations, serving only to justify whatever they're doing at the moment.
The klingons speak about loyalty as a virtue - but one advances in rank by killing his superior (very "loyal").
Klingons claim that they always keep their word - and yet, in Enterprise, they don't even pay a bounty hunter the established reward. A few hundred years later, they attack the Cardassians behind the Federation's (their allies) back and then they have the nerve to say that it was the Federation who betrayed them.

So yes, I think the klingons are overused.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Actually the most interesting thing about the Breen is the mystery surrounding them. Why do they hide themselves? Why is so little known about them? Why does nobody know what they really look like (even though Kira and Dukat actually stole the uniforms from two Breen guards in "Indiscretion")? Why do they claim to be from a cold world when, according to Weyoun, they really aren't?

"Why does nobody know what they really look like" - perhaps because there is a mechanism that disintegrates the breen when his suit is removed. There are other possible explanations - they are not humanoids and their body evaporates at high (for them) temperatures; this is contradicted by their warm homeworld and their humanoid-frendly tech, though.
Why do their wear their refrigeration suits when they don't need to?
Perhaps it's simply secrecy. Maybe it's something vital - they could be ill and those suits could be keeping them alive. Maybe they refrigerate themselves simply as a means of attaining biological immortality.

 

[KimMH]

Personally, for me, there can never be enough Klingons. I just love the way the people and their culture, language, rituals and history was fleshed out over the years.

i really appreciate the different species so much more when we are given such rich detail about them.

It makes it so much more real for me. **flashing big geeky smile here**

Agreed. A lot of Trek Lit has fleshed out the cultures and variety of races who seemed so one sided in the series' and movies and made them real, compelling and fascinating. I find Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians all the more intriguing the more I get to know about them. The movies and series introduce you to them and the books let you get to know them and want to know more about them.

 

[Jeyl]

I wasn't so much annoyed about the overuse of Klingons, but the overuse of the freaking Bird-Of-Prey. That went all the way from III to Generations.

Ron Moore was even annoyed about it because the original purpose of the Bird of Prey in Star Trek III was that it was a stolen Romulan ship. But since that element was never mentioned in the film, writers really started treating the bird of prey and it's cloaking ability like the Klingons have always had it. Heck, they even went with the idea that Klingons developed the bird of prey that can fire while cloaked.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Those ships were even seen in the new Star Trek movie. One of the few presences from the older movies (ships, uniforms, tech) that wasn't inexplicably re-designed for the movie, even though it's still a prequel and should therefore have the same ships, costumes, weapons, etc. as the original series (despite the alternate timeline stuff).

 

[Christopher]

Those ships were even seen in the new Star Trek movie.

Not the Bird of Prey, though. Those were K'tinga class ships from TMP.

One of the few presences from the older movies (ships, uniforms, tech) that wasn't inexplicably re-designed for the movie, even though it's still a prequel and should therefore have the same ships, costumes, weapons, etc. as the original series (despite the alternate timeline stuff).

It's perfectly explicable. This was a big-budget tentpole feature film designed for a general audience and produced by a totally new production team. It's only natural that they'd make their own designs rather than slavishly imitating stuff designed in 1965 on a television budget. You might as well say it's "inexplicable" that the Starfleet technology, equipment, uniforms, etc. in ST:TMP bore virtually no resemblance to that from TOS despite only three years having elapsed. The explanation is that movies have more money to spend, and that they're works of make-believe rather than genuine history. It would've been crazy for them not to update the designs. And the alternate timeline provides all the justification they need.

 

[Possum]

In my opinion, the klingons are far from being an interesting species - they are like a gang of bikers in space; thugs who speak only about their honor - a concept which they define differently in different situations, serving only to justify whatever they're doing at the moment.
The klingons speak about loyalty as a virtue - but one advances in rank by killing his superior (very "loyal").
Klingons claim that they always keep their word - and yet, in Enterprise, they don't even pay a bounty hunter the established reward. A few hundred years later, they attack the Cardassians behind the Federation's (their allies) back and then they have the nerve to say that it was the Federation who betrayed them.

So yes, I think the klingons are overused.

Totally agree- plus I can't take Klingons seriously ever since they discovered the eighties hair band look. I always picture them having a pick in their pocket.

Oh yeah, and they've been overused.

 

[Too Much Fun]

It's perfectly explicable. This was a big-budget tentpole feature film designed for a general audience and produced by a totally new production team. It's only natural that they'd make their own designs rather than slavishly imitating stuff designed in 1965 on a television budget. You might as well say it's "inexplicable" that the Starfleet technology, equipment, uniforms, etc. in ST:TMP bore virtually no resemblance to that from TOS despite only three years having elapsed. The explanation is that movies have more money to spend, and that they're works of make-believe rather than genuine history.

Well obviously that's the real world explanation for it, but from a fictional perspective it is a bit of a continuity error. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't mind as much as I sounded like I did. No need to argue about it.

And the alternate timeline provides all the justification they need.

Just to play devil's advocate...think about it - why would Kirk's father being killed while Kirk was born have any bearing whatsoever on how Starfleet designs their uniforms and ships?

I can see how it would make Kirk grow up as a rebel who steals antique cars (unlike on the show, where he hadn't even driven a car until "A Piece of the Action") but affecting Starfleet designs? Causing designs to be radically different than they'd be had George not died the way he did because of Nero's timeline screwing? Nah.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

But Nero knows how the timelines like it >=D
(p.s, I haven't seen the new film so don't spoil anything :P)

 

[Christopher]

Well obviously that's the real world explanation for it, but from a fictional perspective it is a bit of a continuity error. Don't get me wrong, though. I don't mind as much as I sounded like I did. No need to argue about it.

It's not an error, it just differs from our assumptions. We've never previously seen Starfleet designs of the 2230s, so we have no reason to assume they didn't look like what we saw in the Kelvin scenes in the movie. And everything after 2233 was in a divergent history, so there's no reason the designers wouldn't have made different choices. If anything, what's erroneous is something like "Mirror, Mirror" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" where somehow the designers in two different timelines make exactly the same design choices in lockstep for decades or centuries, even when designing ships with very different missions in mind. But that's just a conceit arising from the limited budget of television production. Given a fuller budget, I'm sure that the shows would've given us an ISS Enterprise and a "Yesterday's" Enterprise-D that were very different in design from their main-timeline counterparts.

Just to play devil's advocate...think about it - why would Kirk's father being killed while Kirk was born have any bearing whatsoever on how Starfleet designs their uniforms and ships?

As Roberto Orci has said in interviews, his take is that Starfleet's analysis of sensor readings of the Narada after the Kelvin attack gave them insights into technologies from the future, thus altering the rate of technological progress. Also, in the wake of the attack, Starfleet would've had an incentive to build bigger, more powerful ships as a defense in case the threat returned.

As for the uniforms, see above. Take the same history and run it twice, and the two versions will diverge simply by random variation, chaos theory in practice. There doesn't have to be an obvious, direct causal chain leading to every single change. Especially when dealing with something as arbitrary as fashion. Maybe the Starfleet Quartermaster was in a different mood that day in 2250-something when asked to choose between ugly, drab unisex turtlenecks and bright tunics with a Starfleet arrowhead pattern woven in. Maybe a different designer got hired that year in the new timeline because the designer from the original timeline had moved to a different planet because the Earthman she married in the original timeline had gone to a different college and never met her, because the mentor who'd originally inspired him to go to her college had died aboard the Kelvin this time around. Every event is influenced by thousands of prior, seemingly unconnected moments and decisions. Change even one thing, and the ripple effects will be pervasive and impossible to predict.

Again, what we've seen in the past is even more implausible -- like the 24th-century uniform designs from Riker's hallucinatory future in "Future Imperfect" showing up in real futures or parallel timelines later on. Don't confuse a conceit arising from limited television budgets with a realistic depiction of timeline parallels.

 

[Too Much Fun]

All right, dude, you've sold me. That was a pretty damn well-thought out explanation there.