A Journey
- Thread starter Spider
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Spider said:
For various reasons, some episodes just rub people the wrong way. For me, watching any episode with Troi's mother is like being a cat held upside down by the tail with someone stroking your fur the wrong way.
Why am I all of a sudden getting a very disturbing image of that.
We are in complete bipartisan agreement, Spider. 
Why people consider "Haven" one of the comparatively good S1 episodes I'll never fathom... it's one of the three - "When the Bough Breaks" and "Angel One" - that is completely unwatchable.
I kind of liked the one where she falls in love with a man who is destined to die at sixty, "Half a Life." But then "Cost of Living"? Lwaxana and Worf in a mudbath? Who exactly wrote that and filmed it thinking, 'yeah, this is a good scene'.
Why people consider "Haven" one of the comparatively good S1 episodes I'll never fathom... it's one of the three - "When the Bough Breaks" and "Angel One" - that is completely unwatchable.I kind of liked the one where she falls in love with a man who is destined to die at sixty, "Half a Life." But then "Cost of Living"? Lwaxana and Worf in a mudbath? Who exactly wrote that and filmed it thinking, 'yeah, this is a good scene'.
I love all the Lwaxana episodes. She's just too funny!
Anyways:
Manhunt - Like I mentioned before, Lwaxana is hilarious, and this episode is hilarious because of her. I really like this episode. And all the holodeck scenes were particularly good. Also kinda funny when Riker said he was going to see Picard in the holodeck and Data basically tells him to wait five minutes while he gets dressed.
The Emissary - A neat little Klingon episode. K'Ehleyr is an interesting character. I like how she has a sense of humor.
Anyways:
Manhunt - Like I mentioned before, Lwaxana is hilarious, and this episode is hilarious because of her. I really like this episode. And all the holodeck scenes were particularly good. Also kinda funny when Riker said he was going to see Picard in the holodeck and Data basically tells him to wait five minutes while he gets dressed.
The Emissary - A neat little Klingon episode. K'Ehleyr is an interesting character. I like how she has a sense of humor.
Someone else likes Lwaxana Troi! 
I thought I was the only one. Though I do draw the line at "Cost of Living" I think that's the one with Alexander...ugh. I did like "Manhunt" the scene when she wanted to marry Riker cracks me up every time. "Not him, mother!" "Why not, he's adorable!"
I thought I was the only one. Though I do draw the line at "Cost of Living" I think that's the one with Alexander...ugh. I did like "Manhunt" the scene when she wanted to marry Riker cracks me up every time. "Not him, mother!" "Why not, he's adorable!" 
"Pen Pals"--I was fine with this episode. As others have said, it was an intelligent exploration of the Prime Directive...and a necessary one, since they were changing some of the rules from how it had worked in TOS. (Remember when saving primitive worlds from natural disasters was OK so long as you didn't get seen by the natives? And if the Captain got amnesia and lived among the natives as a god for a few months, eh, you just wrote that one off.) I didn't find Data to be out of character...I think this is an episode that helped define his character. He had a sense of wonder and curiosity that went beyond his duties as a Starfleet officer, and could sometimes take something too far.
I also had no problem with the Wesley subplot, since starting with this season, they were essentially treating Wesley as a junior officer in training rather than a child prodigy. His doubts about asserting his authority seemed right on the mark to me.
"Q Who?"--Not a bad intro for the Borg, though it does have its problems. Of course, there's the whole thing about them being only interested in technology, which was later dropped. And if a few phaser blasts were able to tear out holes in the ship that big, why didn't they just keep firing until the thing was pretty much gone? On the Guinan side of things, while we did learn much about her backstory in future installments, we were never given a follow-up on why Q considered her so dangerous, and how she hoped to ward him off by gesturing...the backstory later established never suggested that she had powers that would let her exchange cosmic energy bolts with a Q.
Spider, did you catch the reference to the outposts that had been scooped up in "The Neutral Zone"?
(Y'know, there's another discrepency with the Borg...what the hell were they doing with the cities that they scooped up? Where did they put them, and why did they stop doing this?)
Ensign Gomez...y'know, when I first saw this and the next episode at the oh-so-hormonal age of 19, I thought she was so cute that I didn't mind the coffee-spilling ditz routine...now, it all seems pretty cheap. Too bad they didn't keep her around in a more substantial role.
"Samaritan Snare"--The Pakled thing was cheesy fun. Most notable for the Picard backstory and his quality time with Wesley.
"Up the Long Ladder"--Yes, dammit, I thought they were funny. That doesn't mean that I think for a second that contemporary Irish people are really like that. They needed some country bumpkins to pick on, and they decided not to be Americacentric about it. Had they been stereotypical hillbillies, I wouldn't lose any sleep about anybody thinking that they represented all Americans...though I likely would have cringed through the episode, I'll admit.
The clone thing--I can see people being offended if it conflicted strongly with their own views. But Trek was always about allegorical situations that made statements about modern situations...and whether or not you agreed with their stance on things, you had to give TNG credit for having a viewpoint on matters such as abortion and religion and making it known. It didn't try to wishy-washily walk on eggshells to avoid alienating some viewers.
Also, love the moment when Picard bows to the absurdity of the situation...a precious character bit for the first couple of seasons.
"Manhunt"--I certainly don't hate Lwaxana in general, but "Haven" was never a favorite, and this one's major flaw is how it tried way too hard to revisit every Lwaxana joke from that episode. It did manage to come up with some good new bits, though--Picard calling upon Data to entertain them with his "stimulating after-dinner conversation", and Picard trying to relax in his plot-driven Dixon Hill program. (Another Holodeck discrepency here--given the flexibility demonstrated in "Elementary, Dear Data", why couldn't he instruct the computer to simulate a slow day in the life of Dixon Hill...to give him the environment without any story-specific elements?)
And we'll always have Mick Fleetwood dressed as a fish....
"The Emissary"--Perhaps the effects of the writers' strike showing, but K'Ehleyr came off as something of a Mary Sue in this one, and while I understand that she was supposed to be taking Worf out of his comfort zone, she seemed horribly unprofessional in the way that she constantly brought up personal matters between them in front of everyone else and while on the job. She definitely made her mark on the show, though, so I'll forgive her awkward intro. I always found it curious how the episode implied that the Klingons and Federation were in an all-out shooting war ca. 2290.
I also had no problem with the Wesley subplot, since starting with this season, they were essentially treating Wesley as a junior officer in training rather than a child prodigy. His doubts about asserting his authority seemed right on the mark to me.
"Q Who?"--Not a bad intro for the Borg, though it does have its problems. Of course, there's the whole thing about them being only interested in technology, which was later dropped. And if a few phaser blasts were able to tear out holes in the ship that big, why didn't they just keep firing until the thing was pretty much gone? On the Guinan side of things, while we did learn much about her backstory in future installments, we were never given a follow-up on why Q considered her so dangerous, and how she hoped to ward him off by gesturing...the backstory later established never suggested that she had powers that would let her exchange cosmic energy bolts with a Q.
Spider, did you catch the reference to the outposts that had been scooped up in "The Neutral Zone"?
(Y'know, there's another discrepency with the Borg...what the hell were they doing with the cities that they scooped up? Where did they put them, and why did they stop doing this?)
Ensign Gomez...y'know, when I first saw this and the next episode at the oh-so-hormonal age of 19, I thought she was so cute that I didn't mind the coffee-spilling ditz routine...now, it all seems pretty cheap. Too bad they didn't keep her around in a more substantial role.
"Samaritan Snare"--The Pakled thing was cheesy fun. Most notable for the Picard backstory and his quality time with Wesley.
"Up the Long Ladder"--Yes, dammit, I thought they were funny. That doesn't mean that I think for a second that contemporary Irish people are really like that. They needed some country bumpkins to pick on, and they decided not to be Americacentric about it. Had they been stereotypical hillbillies, I wouldn't lose any sleep about anybody thinking that they represented all Americans...though I likely would have cringed through the episode, I'll admit.
The clone thing--I can see people being offended if it conflicted strongly with their own views. But Trek was always about allegorical situations that made statements about modern situations...and whether or not you agreed with their stance on things, you had to give TNG credit for having a viewpoint on matters such as abortion and religion and making it known. It didn't try to wishy-washily walk on eggshells to avoid alienating some viewers.
Also, love the moment when Picard bows to the absurdity of the situation...a precious character bit for the first couple of seasons.
"Manhunt"--I certainly don't hate Lwaxana in general, but "Haven" was never a favorite, and this one's major flaw is how it tried way too hard to revisit every Lwaxana joke from that episode. It did manage to come up with some good new bits, though--Picard calling upon Data to entertain them with his "stimulating after-dinner conversation", and Picard trying to relax in his plot-driven Dixon Hill program. (Another Holodeck discrepency here--given the flexibility demonstrated in "Elementary, Dear Data", why couldn't he instruct the computer to simulate a slow day in the life of Dixon Hill...to give him the environment without any story-specific elements?)
And we'll always have Mick Fleetwood dressed as a fish....
"The Emissary"--Perhaps the effects of the writers' strike showing, but K'Ehleyr came off as something of a Mary Sue in this one, and while I understand that she was supposed to be taking Worf out of his comfort zone, she seemed horribly unprofessional in the way that she constantly brought up personal matters between them in front of everyone else and while on the job. She definitely made her mark on the show, though, so I'll forgive her awkward intro. I always found it curious how the episode implied that the Klingons and Federation were in an all-out shooting war ca. 2290.
Yes. I have forgotten a lot of the details from episodes of the first two seasons because I haven't watched them in a while. It's interesting how I seem to have a much better opinion of some of these episodes upon rewatching them.
Season one and two are not nearly as bad as I thought I remembered them to be.
It's perhaps worth remembering they bear more than a passing resemblance to the depictions of the Irish in Punch cartoons, which tended to show us as shambling subhuman apes wallowing in hay and pigs, in accord with popular low opinion and Social Darwinism. Not quite as despicable, but, like "Code of Honor", it's leaning very strongly in that direction.
I'll give this for Snodgrass: It had guts. The issue of abortion largely centers on that of personhood: If the embryonic fetus is indeed a person, then abortion is crime against that person, if the fetus is not a person, then refusing an abortion is a crime against the person in whom the fetus resides.
The episode took the kind of abortion analogy a pro-life group would use: They have no direct contact to the human body they came from, they're very obviously human beings on the moment of consciousness. It's essentially making the 'person' argument. But it goes with a pro-choice solution anyway.
It's got guts... but it's pretty disturbing too. It's a change from Star Trek allegories that stack the house of cards on whosever's side they're on, but hardly a welcome one.
Future reviewers never fear: I've said my last word on "Up the Long Ladder" this month. Don't want to sound repetitive or anything.
Coolest thing about "Manhunt."
I love the bit where Worf admires their beauty. It's just so Worf. I've blocked out most of the rest of it from my memory though...The Next Generation generally implied relations between the Feds and the Klingons were pretty hostile until around twenty years prior to the show. It was The Undiscovered Country, with its desire to tie-in the recent detente with the crumbling Soviet Union with the amciable relations the Feds have with the Klingons in TNG, that pulled the time back a couple of decades.
Hmmm...if you're seeing this depiction as part of a pattern of earlier stereotyping that was more overtly offensive, I suppose I can see that. Fortunately, I'm not familiar with those cartoons.
But I'd like to think that the TNG crew meant no harm (just as I'm sure they didn't with "Code of Honor", I imagine). Another thing to keep in mind, "in-universe", is that this "back to nature" movement was the product of 22nd Century hindsight...the people who founded it could very well have been as clueless as anyone else who propogates such stereotypes.
But there is a pro-choice argument in there as well--the clones were the product of a "rape".
The thing this episode has going against it IMO is how Picard summarily dismisses the clones' request for volunteer donors, based on his own feelings and those of two other officers in the room. In a crew of 1000, surely they would have found a few individuals who were willing to contribute. Trek is supposed to be about IDIC, not collective consciousness.
A couple of points I wanted to touch upon here. First, it might have been more daring of them if it had been the present Picard who wound up threatening to take the course that led his future counterpart to disaster...and the future Picard, now in full control of his senses, killed him. VGR would later pull such a mindfuck, by replacing the "real" Harry Kim with his counterpart from an alternate future that was prevented (IIRC).
And my understanding of time travel as depicted in Trek and superhero comics is that the effects vary by the method. The rules of how it works should be consistent for any particular method...but time travel via the anomaly encountered in this episode plays by different rules than time travel via slingshot effect, for example. Hence the unique effects on Picard and the shuttle.
So would DS9, replacing O'Brien with his future self. Still, atmosphere is what counts: "Time Squared" is about time travel being weird, cryptic and freaky, and an encounter with a spatial anomaly even our crack technobabblers can't decode. Add to tis Patrick Stewart's magnificently creepy performance as Future Picard and it makes this, IMHO, the best time-travel episode of TNG.
^So wouldn't it be all the creepier if the creepy future Picard had killed present Picard and assumed his place? They had the chance to do it first, and they blew it for the predictable route.
^
Concurred, but at least they explained nothing... and future Picard seemed both callous and unhuman. Not just in the 'now', but even in the past, with his strange voice recording in his log that the Enterprise has been destroyed. It somehow seemed right for our Picard to off him.
Concurred, but at least they explained nothing... and future Picard seemed both callous and unhuman. Not just in the 'now', but even in the past, with his strange voice recording in his log that the Enterprise has been destroyed. It somehow seemed right for our Picard to off him.
Peak Performance - I love this episode! Definitely one of my favorites! I particularly enjoyed the final Stratagema match between Data and Kolrami (and the resulting celebration).
Shades of Gray - Ok, it's a lousy clip show, but the parts that aren't clips are ok. Riker's sense of humor makes this episode tolerable.
I'm gonna hold off starting season 3 till next week. (I'll need something to do during all the free time I'm gonna have! Unless of course my cousins are constantly pestering me to play Nintendo with them...) Perhaps I can convince my cousins or my grandma to watch a few episodes with me... Anyway, the reviews won't come as quickly because I'll have very limited internet access (only one decent internet connection there, and that's at my aunt's house. My grandma's internet connection SUCKS.)
Hehe... I think I'm ahead of everybody! Guess this will give y'all some time to catch up!
Shades of Gray - Ok, it's a lousy clip show, but the parts that aren't clips are ok. Riker's sense of humor makes this episode tolerable.
I'm gonna hold off starting season 3 till next week. (I'll need something to do during all the free time I'm gonna have! Unless of course my cousins are constantly pestering me to play Nintendo with them...) Perhaps I can convince my cousins or my grandma to watch a few episodes with me... Anyway, the reviews won't come as quickly because I'll have very limited internet access (only one decent internet connection there, and that's at my aunt's house. My grandma's internet connection SUCKS.)
Hehe... I think I'm ahead of everybody! Guess this will give y'all some time to catch up!
^Finally.
Seriously though, I'm glad you've been enjoying TNG. I'm thinking about seeing an episode or two before I go to bed myself. I've decided that it really is no rush to get these done, but I hope my comments and thoughts are just as good as what others have said here. It's either that or I'm sorry I'm so slow.
Seriously though, I'm glad you've been enjoying TNG. I'm thinking about seeing an episode or two before I go to bed myself. I've decided that it really is no rush to get these done, but I hope my comments and thoughts are just as good as what others have said here. It's either that or I'm sorry I'm so slow.
Samaritan Snare – D+
Next to the Ferengi, the Pakleds are TNG’s worst alien creations. There is no way a species like this would make it into space. What a crappy set of aliens.
The only thing that saves this episode is Picard and Wesley having a sandwich together on the shuttle. That was a wonderful scene and pretty much elevates this episode from an F.
Up The Long Ladder – C-
Not near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but not very good either. I don’t see the controversy in Riker killing the clones, they weren’t formed yet. Brenna was hot, and I’m glad to see Riker get a little action. LOL
Actually, I liked the character of Brenna and she saves this episode from a D. As to the clones, so what if you clone yourself, giving up sex is not believable. Surely someone on the cloning planet was getting a little on the side.
Manhunt – C
The fish dudes and Lwaxana Troi are horrible. To be honest, this is the first time I’ve seen this episode all the way through. Starting with this episode, I deliberately skipped all the episodes with Lwaxana Troi in them. So any that are left, I’ll be seeing them for the first time.
Dixon Hill saves this other wise horrible episode, and it gets a C simply because a lot of the Dixon Hill scenes were all new to me. Fresh new TNG after all these years is worth something.
The Emissary – B-
I found myself really enjoying this episode. K'Ehleyr is a good foil for Worf and their relationship is very well done. This is an episode I usually skip when I rewatch TNG, but I see that was a mistake now. One can’t help but think how things might have been different if K'Ehleyr was more of reoccurring character, or even a permanent one on the show. Perhaps Worf wouldn’t have been so grumpy all the time and we would have been spared the Worf/Troi nonsense. I found the ending, and Worfs solution a little trite, but it didn’t distract from and otherwise good episode.
Peak Performance – C+
A good episode, but not great. I liked seeing Riker in command, but Wesley cheated as far as I’m concerned. I guess he saved the day anyway along with Worf. I have a question though. If Worf needed the security controls to fake the appearance of a ship to fool the Enterprise sensors, how then did he fool the Ferengi’s sensors without the codes? Aw well, it was a decent outing nonetheless.
Shades of Gray – D-
Not only was the medical procedure stimulating Riker’s memory silly, this whole episode is just bad. Not because it’s a clip show (I fast forwarded through the clips anyway) but because it’s just a badly written episode. This is certainly not the worst of TNG, but it does belong in the bottom 10.
That whole operation with Riker on the bed with the probes in his skull reminded me of some old scifi movies that were just bad. Maybe they should have hauled his bed higher with chains and struck him with lightening or something.
Pulaski: “It’s alive! My creation lives! The evil microbes are defeated!”
I'll do a review on the whole of season two like I did with season one later. I'm looking forward to season three.
Next to the Ferengi, the Pakleds are TNG’s worst alien creations. There is no way a species like this would make it into space. What a crappy set of aliens.
The only thing that saves this episode is Picard and Wesley having a sandwich together on the shuttle. That was a wonderful scene and pretty much elevates this episode from an F.
Up The Long Ladder – C-
Not near as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but not very good either. I don’t see the controversy in Riker killing the clones, they weren’t formed yet. Brenna was hot, and I’m glad to see Riker get a little action. LOL
Actually, I liked the character of Brenna and she saves this episode from a D. As to the clones, so what if you clone yourself, giving up sex is not believable. Surely someone on the cloning planet was getting a little on the side.
Manhunt – C
The fish dudes and Lwaxana Troi are horrible. To be honest, this is the first time I’ve seen this episode all the way through. Starting with this episode, I deliberately skipped all the episodes with Lwaxana Troi in them. So any that are left, I’ll be seeing them for the first time.
Dixon Hill saves this other wise horrible episode, and it gets a C simply because a lot of the Dixon Hill scenes were all new to me. Fresh new TNG after all these years is worth something.
The Emissary – B-
I found myself really enjoying this episode. K'Ehleyr is a good foil for Worf and their relationship is very well done. This is an episode I usually skip when I rewatch TNG, but I see that was a mistake now. One can’t help but think how things might have been different if K'Ehleyr was more of reoccurring character, or even a permanent one on the show. Perhaps Worf wouldn’t have been so grumpy all the time and we would have been spared the Worf/Troi nonsense. I found the ending, and Worfs solution a little trite, but it didn’t distract from and otherwise good episode.
Peak Performance – C+
A good episode, but not great. I liked seeing Riker in command, but Wesley cheated as far as I’m concerned. I guess he saved the day anyway along with Worf. I have a question though. If Worf needed the security controls to fake the appearance of a ship to fool the Enterprise sensors, how then did he fool the Ferengi’s sensors without the codes? Aw well, it was a decent outing nonetheless.
Shades of Gray – D-
Not only was the medical procedure stimulating Riker’s memory silly, this whole episode is just bad. Not because it’s a clip show (I fast forwarded through the clips anyway) but because it’s just a badly written episode. This is certainly not the worst of TNG, but it does belong in the bottom 10.
That whole operation with Riker on the bed with the probes in his skull reminded me of some old scifi movies that were just bad. Maybe they should have hauled his bed higher with chains and struck him with lightening or something.
Pulaski: “It’s alive! My creation lives! The evil microbes are defeated!”
I'll do a review on the whole of season two like I did with season one later. I'm looking forward to season three.
"Peak Performance"--Overall a good episode, I like the way the less-equipped crew has to resort to "guile"...especially Wesley's contribution, which is in the fine tradition of James T. Kirk. The observer is yet another highly-annoying guest character, but meant to be in this case. This episode is infamous for establishing the modern Trek conceit that Starfleet isn't a military organization. They may not be dedicated to military operations, but military operations are clearly a large part of their function. However they want to describe themselves, I wouldn't think that anyone who serves as the primary line of defense for their people would turn their nose up at wargames. Would you rather be unprepared when the time comes to go into battle? Picard is generally portrayed as a very competent commander in battle, but you don't magically gain such competence, and others may not have the benefit of his years of experience in the field. He should know that the primary purpose of a defensive organization like Starfleet is to train, train, train for the day when they will be called upon to fulfill that role. Can you imagine him scoffing at the crew needing to train for any other endeavor? On the contrary, the show usually acknowledges that competency is only gained through experience, such as in "Pen Pals" and "The Ensigns of Command".
This is just bad writing by knee-jerk lefties. It reminds me of the book The Sum of All Fears, in which the first Democratic president after the fall of the Soviet Union and his National Security Advisor turn up their noses at participating in doomsday simulations because they find it distasteful. When an unforseen nuclear crisis does occur, they're ready to push the button because they're untrained and they panic under the pressure.
End of rant.
"Shades of Gray"--I don't despise this episode as much as some, because I had missed much of first season when this originally aired, so I appreciated the clips. But yeah, it's a snoozer. Still, if one clip show during a difficulat season was the worst the show managed, that's not bad. Pulaski gets one last spotlight before we say BUH-BYE!
This is just bad writing by knee-jerk lefties. It reminds me of the book The Sum of All Fears, in which the first Democratic president after the fall of the Soviet Union and his National Security Advisor turn up their noses at participating in doomsday simulations because they find it distasteful. When an unforseen nuclear crisis does occur, they're ready to push the button because they're untrained and they panic under the pressure.
End of rant.
"Shades of Gray"--I don't despise this episode as much as some, because I had missed much of first season when this originally aired, so I appreciated the clips. But yeah, it's a snoozer. Still, if one clip show during a difficulat season was the worst the show managed, that's not bad. Pulaski gets one last spotlight before we say BUH-BYE!
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