A (hopefully) interesting fanfic discussion topic!

[Bry_Sinclair]

Due to the Prime Directive, I believe Starfleet would only have made first contact with the Sioux-Aliens if they were warp capable. Otherwise the very means of communicating with them would interfere with their natural development.

Either Picard or Troi stated in the TNG episode "First Contact" that they wait until a species reaches that stage in their development before introducing themselves (though only after undercover anthropological research has been conducted).

The Sioux-Aliens could only be in the very early stages of warp (no faster than 1.5), but because the asteroid belt is in their system they are de facto 'landlords', so ultimately have a substantial claim to what is there--they would however lack the means of effectively mining it.

Starfleet would respect their wishes, so if the Sioux-Aliens asked for no further dealings with them, Starfleet would respect that--though they could always change their minds in the future.

But thats just some more thoughts on the topic.

 

[Sandoval]

I don't see a problem with the aliens being warp-capable.

More that their ships are very few in number and relatively weak so they're only able to launch hit-and-run raids against these prospectors - doing what little they can do make their lives harder in the hopes that they will eventually pack up and leave.

This would be a very entertaining project to get off the ground I must admit.

 

[Mistral]

ADM2-I think you're off base in that the Prime Directive is not a factor once a civilization achieves warp capability. So it wouldn't have any point in this tale. It would, instead, be the diplomats who might be involved, trying to put checks on the "49ers" via cooperation w/the Sioux.

 

[Admiral2]

What you're all missing is that this concept doesn't work if Starfleet or the Federation is involved at all. Otherwise it's not a story about independent settlers facing great odds. It's Yet Another Story about the Fleet and the Starship Fanwank and Captain Glorious Godfrey saving the benighted colonists from the evil guys in pancake make-up.

You're all trying to come up with a Federation/Starfleet/Sioux alien backstory when it is completely unnecessary for the concept to work. It's perfect if it's prospectors going out into the great unknown and meeting natives nobody knows about and get in trouble with them. Then the settlers have a choice: stand and fight, run back to Fed space or call for help. If they call for help, then the Federation has to make a choice, and all I'm saying is, the Federation won't necessarily choose to help people who are essentially trespassing on somebody else's property...and it would be better from a dramatic standpoint if they didn't.

 

[Sandoval]

To be honest I can't see Starfleet not noticing or finding out that thousands of Federation citizens have all upped-sticks and left for parts unknown.

 

[Sandoval]

Anything happening with this then?

 

[Aaron McGuire]

I've got a few ideas.

For the time, I think that around 2260 would be good. Just before Kirk's five year mission.

Perhaps, the "Sioux aliens" aren't native to the system at all. What if they were nomads native to the area around the system? For whatever reason, their claim to the system is shaky at best. Because the claim is so tenuous and because of the pressures of the cold war with the Klingons, the Federation just goes ahead and moves to get at the dilithium and whatnot in the system. They are technologically unadvanced (say Earth 22nd century or less) and dirt poor. They are too proud to take the Federations offers of handouts. They know of the system's vast resources, but have lacked the ability to exploit them. When the Feds come along, the "Sioux" want a piece of the action and that sweet, sweet Federation technology and have no problem with the idea of taking it.

Lightly armed or unarmed freighters, mining vessels, and asteroid colonies are no match for even the low tech means of the aliens, so the Federation sends a patrol ship to the area. Unfortunatly for the miners in the system, Starfleet doesn't take the situation all that serious. They send a ship that's pushing fifty years old and not really up to the task of protecting the colonies and ships in the system. The ship is small, not too quick or maneuverable, and doesn't boast the best weapon systems around. It's better than anything the aliens have, but not by much. The Starfleeters have a hard time keeping the aliens out of the colonists' collective hair.

Aaron McGuire

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I like the idea of being set in the mid-23rd century, when there were a lot of mounting hostilities so Starfleet and the UFP had other things to worry about other than where a few thousand of its citizens were headed.

I would say however that for an idea such as this there definately seems to be too much focus on Starfleet operations in the region. It would work better if they were always in the background, too far away to provide any real assistance thus leaving the colonists, prospectors, miners and traders on their own for the most part.

Any Starfleet ship that would be included should either be very small or pushing retirement (leaving newer ships to see to more important sectors of space).

 

[T'Girl]

Perhaps, the "Sioux aliens" aren't native to the system at all.

They're from a nearby star system, this is one of the first star systems they've reached after developing warp drive. Their sole claim to the entire system amounts to "we were here first," and also "our home system is closer that yours."

... a vast asteroid-field ...

Our own asteroid belt (the inner one) has a circumference of over a billion kilometres.

who object to this sudden influx of aliens into their territory

The Sioux aliens have claimed the belt in it entirety, they are thinly spread through the belt, and only inhabit a small portion of it. They lack the technology to enforce their claim, and have resorted to isolated raids to encourage other to leave. Sometimes it works.

One story might follow two young men arriving in what is essentially an oversized shuttlecraft

Another story might follow a larger, more well-funded mining ship and its crew.

The belt is slowly in the process of being divide up. Different species, not all from the Federation are arriving. Some are new comers, other have been there for decades, individual miners and also a few professional mining companies (Ezra Dax's family-like). And a couple large corporations too, causing friction with the independents.

Small sections of the belt are "de facto" the property of this or that species.

I wouldn't place it in the Picard-era 24th century, somehow I can't see hundreds of thousands of people having any sort of motivation to leave the safety of Federation space to seek their fortune in the unknown.

Not everyone wants to be taken care of and be provided for. You'll alway have a segment who want to build their own lifes, with their own hands.

No one mentions telling the tale from the viewpoint of the "Sioux" aliens ...

That would be one story possibility, are they of one mind concerning the raids? Some of them might just be traders, settlers, miners. Each with their own story.

This whole thing might work best as a anthology.

Starfleet ... hamstring them so they weren't massively involved ... but is unable to legally stop Federation citizens from going out there.

If the Federation (or Starfleet) are in over all control, this becomes far less interesting, we lose the "wild west" aspect.

I would think that an Archer-Class ship (the 50m long scout from Vanguard)

And maybe a number of runabout size ships, and sublight shuttles as well, operating off of a beat up old carrier, vintage Romulan War era, it basically loses it warp drive after it arrives.

But then again, I love small ships.

Me too. You send in a "flying starbase' type ship and it wreaks the premise.

The Prime Directive exists in the TOS and TNG eras ...

But the Prime Directive in TOS, and the Prime Directive in TNG are so different, it's basically two different "laws" with the same name.

interfering with the Sioux aliens is a violation of it because they exist outside of Federation space.

The Federation might not recognize the Sioux alien annexation of the entire system. Starfleet did go to the defense of the settlers who moved into disputed space, protected them from the Cardassians.

No special treaty is required to keep Starfleet from helping. All Starfleet and the Federation have to do is obey their own law.

But which law, during which time period? Even if Starfleet's presence wasn't to fight the aliens as a group, they could still protect the settlements from attacks. Problem would be the mines and settlement are scattered, and Starfleet is thin spread.

Starfleet might also be there to prevent the settlers from attacking the aliens in response. Plus there are other aliens besides the Sioux.

In fact, in this situation their likely course of action would be to forcibly remove the settlers to Federation space, ending the prospecting and the story.

The settlers are from planets within the Federation, who want their species/people protected, their families who remained behind would call for it, and their representatives in the Federation Council would listen. There might be elements in the Council who see this rich system and want the Federation to one day swallow it.

your man on the street Federation citizen is not bound by the Starfleet MO and can do as they please.

Especially if they are outside the Federation proper.

then Starfleet would likely respect their wishes and not infringe on their territory again

Again, if Starfleet recognized their claim that the asteroid belt was entirely their territory.

because having contact with a race that wants no contact can be considered "interference with their natural development."

And Starfleet can say, "fine, we won't interfere with you and your settlements, and you don't interfere with ours ... we clear?" Plus there nothing that says that there is any contact with the Homeworld of the Sioux aliens at all. Just those of the Sioux that ventured to the asteroid belt.

Due to the Prime Directive, I believe Starfleet would only have made first contact with the Sioux-Aliens if they were warp capable.

If Starfleet got to them prior to the private interest getting there first, Starfleet might be coming in late in the game, after much of the situation was already in place.

The miners, settlers, traders, transporters and such were up and running, when Starfleet first entered the system.

What you're all missing is that this concept doesn't work if Starfleet or the Federation is involved at all.

No, it would depend on the level of involvement. If we're discussing "only" tens (or hundreds) of thousands of people out of the Federation, how much in the way of assets is the Federation really going to throw at the problem?

It's perfect if it's prospectors going out into the great unknown and meeting natives nobody knows about and get in trouble with them

If that happens first, yes. And I agree that Starfleet should not be the main focus of the story (or stories).

To be honest I can't see Starfleet not noticing or finding out that thousands of Federation citizens have all upped-sticks and left for parts unknown.

A hundred thousand people (if that), out of a trillion? That would be like 32 people disappearing out of the American population.

I like the idea of being set in the mid-23rd century

Look at the miners in Mudd's Women. Something like that.

Starfleet ... It would work better if they were always in the background,

Yes, minimal presence.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I’ve been giving this idea some pondering and thought I would thrown in my ‘pitch’ for it, just as one possible slant on the OP’s idea.

* * * * *​

In late 2259, deep within unclaimed and uncharted space four small, tightly grouped together planetary systems were discovered by long-range probes. Known as the Draconii Cluster (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta), scans have shown that each one has at least on asteroid belt that registers higher than normal levels of minerals, ores and metals—but huddled so closely together, they are a veritable untapped goldmine. Though the Federation wanted to keep the Cluster quiet, until after they could conduct a full survey and then lay claim to the resources, but that wasn’t to be so. Word of the Cluster leaked out and dozens of species, mining corporations and individual hopefuls now has their eyes set on it—a few looking to expand their sphere of influence, others to increase their profits, and some hoping for a new life.

In the Cluster, as the separate groups begin to stake their claims, small outposts and colonies begin to spring up on many of the asteroids, whilst some of the larger groups opt for small stations for trading or processing the materials. Though many groups work in friendly competition with each other, there are a few are only interested in their own goals and will stop at nothing to achieve them. Matters are compounded when the Insédi, a newly warp capable species from a system near the Cluster, begin hit-and-run attacks, seeing the region as their territory.

* * * * *​

This way would explain the Federation’s minimal official involvement in the region, leaving it to private companies and individuals to tame the region, though maybe with one or two small Starfleet scouts on hand to chart the region and offer aid when needed. It would also allow for various aspects to be explored: profession companies (either the miners themselves, or perhaps the guardships they would hire to keep their investments safe), small independent crews, solitary prospectors or traders, station-based, colonists, established alien species or the Sioux-aliens (Insédi). As time progressed some of the groups may band together to defend themselves for aggressors, forming their own posses for protection. The level of competency and technology for each group would depend on who was involved, what their aim was and what they would be willing to do to achieve it.

 

[Outpost68]

This sounds really interesting I'd love to be a part of it in some way!

 

[Sandoval]

They're from a nearby star system, this is one of the first star systems they've reached after developing warp drive. Their sole claim to the entire system amounts to "we were here first," and also "our home system is closer that yours."

Like it.

The Sioux aliens have claimed the belt in it entirety, they are thinly spread through the belt, and only inhabit a small portion of it. They lack the technology to enforce their claim, and have resorted to isolated raids to encourage other to leave. Sometimes it works.

Already been said but still a good idea.

The belt is slowly in the process of being divide up. Different species, not all from the Federation are arriving. Some are new comers, other have been there for decades, individual miners and also a few professional mining companies (Ezri Dax's family-like). And a couple large corporations too, causing friction with the independents.

Again, this has roughly been said already in some form but a good idea nonetheless.

That would be one story possibility, are they of one mind concerning the raids? Some of them might just be traders, settlers, miners. Each with their own story.

I think this is one of the most interesting aspects of the entire concept - all these different people coming at the thing from different angles and different backgrounds.

And maybe a number of runabout size ships, and sublight shuttles as well, operating off of a beat up old carrier, vintage Romulan War era, it basically loses it warp drive after it arrives.

I'll admit that I do like the imagery of this old carrier-type ship on its last legs finally running out of steam once it arrives, although the whole issue over Starfleet 'involvement' is a difficult one - this venture is a big thing with a lot of Federation citizens involved, so there needs to be a pretty strong reason why Starfleet (knowing how they operate) would send such a vessel and not a stronger force.

Or come up with a reason that Starfleet is left out altogether.

 

[Sandoval]

In late 2259, deep within unclaimed and uncharted space four small, tightly grouped together planetary systems were discovered by long-range probes. Known as the Draconii Cluster (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta), scans have shown that each one has at least on asteroid belt that registers higher than normal levels of minerals, ores and metals—but huddled so closely together, they are a veritable untapped goldmine. Though the Federation wanted to keep the Cluster quiet, until after they could conduct a full survey and then lay claim to the resources, but that wasn’t to be so. Word of the Cluster leaked out and dozens of species, mining corporations and individual hopefuls now has their eyes set on it—a few looking to expand their sphere of influence, others to increase their profits, and some hoping for a new life.

I'll admit that I find it difficult to find fault with any of that, and I'm a man who can usually find fault with most things.

I'm not fond of the name but as a summing up of the whole concept that is difficult to beat.

In the Cluster, as the separate groups begin to stake their claims, small outposts and colonies begin to spring up on many of the asteroids, whilst some of the larger groups opt for small stations for trading or processing the materials. Though many groups work in friendly competition with each other, there are a few are only interested in their own goals and will stop at nothing to achieve them. Matters are compounded when the Insédi, a newly warp capable species from a system near the Cluster, begin hit-and-run attacks, seeing the region as their territory.

Again I don't like the name of the aliens, but again this would appear to sum up the situation perfectly.

If we're going to get this thing off the ground (basically starting with creating the sandbox where everyone can come and play without stepping on each others' toes too much) then Bry's 'pitch' would seem like the place to start.

 

[Outpost68]

The Cimmerian Cluster? A dark, ancient place home to dying stars?

 

[Sandoval]

I could live with Cimmerian Cluster.

 

[Sandoval]

To further drive home just how isolated the Draconi/Cimmerian/yet to be confirmed cluster actually is from Federation space, I think it's important to make the journey out a significant undertaking in itself - lets say three months in the civilian ships being used by these prospectors.

To that end I propose Halfway space station - essentially a backwater refuelling facility that has been dragged out from civilisation to a point (as the name suggests) halway between the asteroid field and the Federation's outermost post.

After six weeks trapped aboard ship going stir-crazy Halfway station is a welcome relief for these people before continuing on with their journey out to the asteroid field. But what started as a vital refuelling and resupply depot (for this region of space is home to virtually nothing but dying stars and airless planets) has evolved into a seedy place catering to whatever hungers these travellers have - bars, brothels, gambling dens and so on.

Halfway station also acts as a dropping off point for those people who are travelling without ships of their own, booking passage on freighters and tankers travelling from the Federation out to Halfway, and then on ships travelling from Halfway to the asteroid field. Some people even lose what money they have at the gaming tables and are unable to continue with their journey, leaving them stranded.

A humble contribution of mine.



Edited to add:
Halfway is situated six weeks out from the Federation on the outskirts of the "Cimmerian" Cluster and another six weeks from the asteroid field - this puts it and the ships travelling to it within range of these "Sioux" aliens who often launch hit-and-run attacks since they are based on a few planets in the region - perhaps breathe carbon-dioxide and live in environments lethally high in CO2 for example - and are thus able to live on worlds that are essentially useless to the usual Star Trek races.

So Halfway is not only a refuelling and resupply depot, it is a also fort located within hostile territory (carrying on the Native American theme) that is understandably a target for these aliens. It is protected by privately-owned warships that fend off whatever hit-and-run attacks are launched by the aliens, as well as coming to the aid of prospector vessels that come under attack nearby - imagine a small convoy being chased like a wagon train under attack by a group of Native American that just manages to reach the safety of Halfway station's guns)

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'm not fond of the name but as a summing up of the whole concept that is difficult to beat.

Again I don't like the name of the aliens, but again this would appear to sum up the situation perfectly.

The names were just random ideas that popped into my head, they are just in as placeholders until something else was settled on.

Cimmerian Cluster also works for me. I thought with four systems so close together they would be called Alpha/Beta/etc Cimmerian (or the other way round).

I also really like the idea of Halfway Station, it does make sense to have something out there. I would say nothing bigger than a K-Class, just to make the region feel a little more sparsely populated.

 

[The Badger]

And maybe a number of runabout size ships, and sublight shuttles as well, operating off of a beat up old carrier, vintage Romulan War era, it basically loses it warp drive after it arrives.

I'll admit that I do like the imagery of this old carrier-type ship on its last legs finally running out of steam once it arrives, although the whole issue over Starfleet 'involvement' is a difficult one - this venture is a big thing with a lot of Federation citizens involved, so there needs to be a pretty strong reason why Starfleet (knowing how they operate) would send such a vessel and not a stronger force.

Or come up with a reason that Starfleet is left out altogether.

It doesn't have to be a Star Fleet vessel acting as carrier. Maybe a former Fleet ship, long obsolete, stripped of all weapons and sold off as surplus. Now under the command of a civilian consortium.

 

[Sandoval]

And maybe a number of runabout size ships, and sublight shuttles as well, operating off of a beat up old carrier, vintage Romulan War era, it basically loses it warp drive after it arrives.

It doesn't have to be a Star Fleet vessel acting as carrier. Maybe a former Fleet ship, long obsolete, stripped of all weapons and sold off as surplus. Now under the command of a civilian consortium.

I like that a lot - an old, beaten up Starfleet vessel that has been through the Romulan War and sold off to a private company.

 

[Outpost68]

A few alien sounding names: Brigalians Banticans Krott Alkari Destris Sparri Navich Katari. I quite like Sparri for the sioux aliens.