"a historic" or "an historic"--Vote

[Alidar Jarok]

I always pronounce the H in historic and no one taught me a rule in order to form a habit otherwise, so I say "a historic."

That being said, this really demonstrates the weakness of the H sound. It's there, but it almost isn't. Plenty of words have always dropped it (e.g., hour). Some words drop it for a large portion of the population (e.g., herbs). And, with some words, there's an urge to use "an" with it or drop it when using an indefinite pronoun. Plus, there's the stereotypical northern English accent that drops it always and Romantic languages (and I assume vulgar Latin) that have absolutely dropped it (I wonder why Spanish even has the letter anymore).

 

[iguana_tonante]

I guess same reason Italian still have it: to distinguish between homophones, to change the sound of the previous/following letter, or simply as an historical remnant.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I use different articles for "historic" and "historical." Oftentimes in writing, I read "an historic," which sounds a bit more formal, e.g., an historic event, as in "momentous or memorable." This is my preference.

However, I say "a historical" when referring to something that "pertains to history or past events or the study of history." For instance, I say "a historical documentary" or "a historical record." The documentary itself refers to the study of history rather than describe it as a momentous film. I pronounce it "uh" instead of long "a" as in "way."

 

[RJDiogenes]

Since "h" isn't a vowel, I generally use "a," so I'd say "a historic vote." If the "h" is silent, such as in "honest" or "hour" or whatever, I'd use "an."

I think one of the first times I got yelled at in Junior High was when I asked the teacher who "Anne Historian" was.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Since "h" isn't a vowel, I generally use "a," so I'd say "a historic vote." If the "h" is silent, such as in "honest" or "hour" or whatever, I'd use "an."

I think one of the first times I got yelled at in Junior High was when I asked the teacher who "Anne Historian" was.

Isn't she pals with Jeannie Ology?

 

[Yoda]

"An historic" is obviously wrong.

Historic has its H pronounced. Let's say you were to lead off your speech with with no article, e.g. "Historic times such as these." You would pronounce the H because that's how the word is pronounced.

"An historic" is just a symptom of mush-mouthed laziness. It wasn't the first mush-mouthed laziness to become accepted usage, and it won't be the last. But, I'm under no obligation to like it.

 

[Trekker4747]

"An", I was taught, is used before vowel-sounds.

"historic" is a bit muddy and I thin, really, either "a" or "an" works but I find myself saying "an" more often.

 

[Goliath]

Also, when I write it, I say I am an historian, but when I speak aloud I would say that I am a historian.

Really? I always say "I am an historian," both aloud and in writing.

An historian wrote an historical article about an historiographical problem on an historic occasion.

But when asked, she replied, somewhat confusingly: "Yes, I'm a history professor."

And BTW, I just learned a new word from the OED while researching this post: "historiaster--a petty and contemptible historian." After "poetaster"--a similarly petty and contemptible poet.

Other words I didn't know:

historicalness--"the quality of being historical"
historician, historier--obsolete words for historian
historiette--a short history or anecdote
historiology--the knowledge or study of history (a good word, IMO--it helps distinguish between the past and the study of the past)
historionomer--"one versed in the principles which regulate the course of history"
historious--historical
historize--to write history or act the historian

 

[Gov Kodos]

The real problem with this is that English is a living language, and all the proscriptions of English teachers won't get the general populace to use whom or to put a with historical more than an. We speak an awful corruption of the language from the view of five centuries ago, and will be viewed as quaintly archaic five centuries hence. All the grammars will be quite useless in saying what English is until it is like Latin a dead language.

 

[Goliath]

"An historic" is obviously wrong.

Actually, it's you that's obviously wrong. Moreover, you're basing your false claims on a false theory of language.

Historic has its H pronounced.

Except, of course, when it doesn't.

That's the problem with your theory of language: you assume that it has timeless, unchanging rules which people must follow; and that anything else is a mistake.

When in fact, these so-called rules are at best empirical generalizations and useful guidelines; at worst, they're prescriptions laid down by pretentious fools and arrogant snobs.

Language isn't a fucking hockey game, with a rulebook and a referee. It's not a rule-based activity at all. It's a creative activity. That's why language changes, all the time: because people make it up as they go along. Some of these innovations become popular, pass into common usage, and become "rules". Others do not.

Thou wouldst know this, if thou wouldst merely take a moment to recall that English has lost an entire verb form in the past four hundred years: the second-person singular "thou." If thou'rt going to insist upon thy timeless and unchanging rules, and dismiss all innovations as vulgar errors, then thou hadst better brush up on thy second-person singulars: if thou dost not, thou wilt leave thyself open to charges of inconsistency and hypocrisy. Thou pharisaical rump-fed pumpion.

People are taught rules in order to facilitate communication, but in practice many of these rules are discarded--either because they're not necessary for communication, or because they actually get in the way--like the rule against ending a sentence with a preposition. As Churchill is alleged to have said, in response to an editor who insisted on this rule: "This is the sort of English up with which I will not put."

And who the hell are you tell people how to speak, anyway? Or to dismiss how they speak as "mush-mouthed laziness"? Where exactly would that authority come from? Election? Appointment? Birth? Or just arrogation?

My own counsel will I keep about when "an" should be used, "Yoda." And that goes for any other would-be pedants around here, as well.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Thou pharisaical rump-fed pumpion.

Honestly, there needs to be an English course for creative insults. This is brilliance.

 

[Jadzia]

It depends on how your pronounce the A too.

(1) If you pronounce A like "Day", it sounds okay to say "A Historic" pausing before the H and emphasising the H. But if you pronounce A like "Ha", then it doesn't sound right.

The A~ and H~ sounds in question are forced exhaling sounds, and it's uncomfortable to have two of these sounds in quick succession, because you can't start/stop exhaling that quickly, meaning you either have to pause between the words and take longer to speak them, or don't pause and waste half a lung full of air.

(2) With 'An', you don't have to pause or waste breath, making it both quicker and a more efficient way of expressing your thoughts. So I say, go with whatever you can slur together, "An'istoric" "An'umbrella", "An'ouse", "An'onest man".

 

[RoJoHen]

"An'umbrella

Is "humbrella" a word where you're from?

 

[Gov Kodos]

"An'umbrella

Is "humbrella" a word where you're from?

I'm sure it hardly hever happens, dear Eliza.

 

[RoJoHen]

Uh-huh...

 

[Jadzia]

"An'umbrella

Is "humbrella" a word where you're from?

aye, tis the thing thee ope thee ave in and when the eavens open.

 

[SiorX]

It depends on how your pronounce the A too.

(1) If you pronounce A like "Day", it sounds okay to say "A Historic" pausing before the H and emphasising the H. But if you pronounce A like "Ha", then it doesn't sound right.

The A~ and H~ sounds in question are forced exhaling sounds, and it's uncomfortable to have two of these sounds in quick succession, because you can't start/stop exhaling that quickly, meaning you either have to pause between the words and take longer to speak them, or don't pause and waste half a lung full of air.

Even so, accents and regional dialects will still trump the logic of this. The second version is perfectly natural and normal in Ireland. In fact it's a sound combination that's characteristic of the Irish language, where the 'a' sound triggers a hard 'h' before vowels.

(The letter itself is even called "a haitch" )

 

[RoJoHen]

"An'umbrella

Is "humbrella" a word where you're from?

aye, tis the thing thee ope thee ave in and when the eavens open.

I've never seen it spelled that way.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Posted by Goliath:

An historian wrote an historical article about an historiographical problem on an historic occasion.

That whole sentence doesn't even sound right. I can see why one would use "an" before historic, historian, or even historical. But historiographical? It's almost like saying "an hideous beast," "an hysterical laughter," "an homosexual man."

 

[RoJoHen]

^With certain accents, I'm sure all of those Hs would be silent.

an'ideous beast
an'isterical laughter
an'omosexual