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A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did Not

GhostFaceSaint

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
I have to say that when it comes to emotion Star Trek (XI) inspires powerful feeling in watching it and incites equally powerful sentiment against it but 'till now I never understood why some fans didn't like the new film. I came from StarTrek.com's forums originally a place where the worst kind of behavior was tolerated and the fight between those who liked the new film and those who didn't were terrible. I left that forum some time ago never to return for lack of mod's enforcing any kind of civility there, sad isn't it. However the reasons people didn't seem to like the new film that I got seemed relatively unimportant to just plain stupid, but I am not going to dig any of that up by repeating that here to start any fight. I just watched a young Trekker who is very bright, well spoken, and normal explain on YouTube his reasons for not liking the new film and he did it without inciting any of the usual reasons I have heard for people not liking the film. He thought it was better than Insurrection or Nemesis but stated that he didn't like the fact that it was to him basically an action film. He explained his reasons well and I understood him although that still didn't change the fact that I loved this new film. First here is his posted video on you tube: "Star Trek" 2009 Critique (by Corallis) ...I think you will feel proud of him as a fellow Trekker.

Now I do agree with him that this film is an action film but here are my reasons for why I believe that Star Trek needed an action film to restart everything afresh.

In its last television incarnation, Enterprise, Star Trek pushed away a lot of viewers, I say this from what I have read and personal experience with people I know who site Enterprise as the main reason for not liking Star Trek, they didn't like the performances of its actors, the lack of chemistry between the characters, their seeming lack of growth and two-dimensionality, the way too obvious and rather insulting messages and preaching, I mean shouldn't the viewers discern the message themselves by thinking about it on their own? Finally the show was boring and dry. Enterprise under Rick Berman did a lot of damage to Star Trek's image by seemingly embodying all the things that people say Star Trek is guilty of. As a Trekker I tried to enjoy Enterprise I really did but in the end I thought that it was awful. Star Trek needed to do one film that was well performed, fun, and easy to watch and XI was that film breaking the stereotypes of what 'Trek is.

Although it doesn't have as much depth as other 'Trek films Star Trek (XI) does have one kind of depth that other previous 'Trek has been lacking, emotional depth. There are other good qualities about it, this movie is full of powerful emotional moments which are well performed and there is chemistry between the actors too, and since Kirk and Spock do grow; three-dimensionality as well.

To those who don't like the film I understand why you don't and am not offended by your dislike, so please don't be offended for my the other Trekkers enjoying the film. This film is what 'Trek really needed.

So do I want another action film? Actually, no, I want a film that slows down a bit with more exposition for us to get to know the characters of the USS Enterprise, I still want action scenes but I think we got enough from XI to allow us to slow down now.

My friends here at Trek BBS I believe that those who like and dislike the new film should unite in asking for the next film to slow down, keep the humor, keep the spirit of optimism that defines 'Trek, but allow more thought to enter in to the next two films. If we all do that Abram's, Orci, and Kertzman might listen and give us what we want in XII and XIII. Kaplah!:klingon:

Live long and Prosper:vulcan:
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

I disagree with your views about Enterprise. But then I would, wouldn't I? Interesting how you bash characterisation, but to each their own. I have no real desire to sit through Star Trek 2009 again for a while, for similar reasons you cite my favourite show for.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Some exposition can be good for a movie, It can set up drama, suspense, and great action too. Though keep away from exposition like in Insurrection and definitely no technobabble saving the day!
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

I disagree with your views about Enterprise. But then I would, wouldn't I?

Well I did like the season with the Zindi, but even that had a lot of filler episodes and a weird ending too, (WWII and Alien Nazi's give me-a-break).
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

The kid who did the youtube review knows his stuff. It was a very accurate analysis of what was wrong with the film.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Well I did like the season with the Zindi, but even that had a lot of filler episodes and a weird ending too, (WWII and Alien Nazi's give me-a-break).

Those were in the best tradition of TOS, I found.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

What was wrong with the film was that some people didn't like it. What was right about the film was that some people liked it just fine. :)
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

The kid who did the youtube review knows his stuff. It was a very accurate analysis of what was wrong with the film.

I think it's just his accent that makes the analysis sound more important and deeper than it really is. ;)

And really, while Trek isn't vapid, when has Trek ever had any real depth? It's pop culture. It's Andy Warhol, not Monet. It's Fleetwood Mac, not Brahms.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

The kid who did the youtube review knows his stuff. It was a very accurate analysis of what was wrong with the film.

I think it's just his accent that makes the analysis sound more important and deeper than it really is. ;)

And really, while Trek isn't vapid, when has Trek ever had any real depth? It's pop culture. It's Andy Warhol, not Monet. It's Fleetwood Mac, not Brahms.

But it would be nice if it finally was, wouldn't it?
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

The kid who did the youtube review knows his stuff. It was a very accurate analysis of what was wrong with the film.

I think it's just his accent that makes the analysis sound more important and deeper than it really is. ;)

And really, while Trek isn't vapid, when has Trek ever had any real depth? It's pop culture. It's Andy Warhol, not Monet. It's Fleetwood Mac, not Brahms.

But it would be nice if it finally was, wouldn't it?

I don't know. I'm comfortable with it as is. Just like I'm comfortable with Warhol and Fleetwood Mac.

I've always thought that the folks who need to read deeper meanings and intellectual scope into Trek are overcompensating for something lacking elsewhere in their lives. ;)
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

Hmm? I thought there were plenty of women in the film, as well as women who went to the film? What do you mean?

Uhura is now the only established female character in the franchise as of this moment, and she hardly does anything useful in the film but be Spock's love thing. I also do not like the idea of the remainder female roles being depicted as the captain's yeoman or the doctor's nurse. You know? Women who's sole purpose is to assist the male crew.

I want my Number One goddangit!:klingon:
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

What was wrong with the film was that some people didn't like it. What was right about the film was that some people liked it just fine. :)
And it's quite obvious that a lot more liked it than didn't. :)
The kid who did the youtube review knows his stuff. It was a very accurate analysis of what was wrong with the film.

I think it's just his accent that makes the analysis sound more important and deeper than it really is. ;)

Oh, he had an accent. ;) I didn't say his analysis was important or deep. I just think that he accurately described the problems (at least those I had) with the movie.
And really, while Trek isn't vapid, when has Trek ever had any real depth? It's pop culture. It's Andy Warhol, not Monet. It's Fleetwood Mac, not Brahms.
If you'll remember, the reviewer acknowledges that very thing near the beginning of the review. He was saying (accurately IMO) that the new movie had even less depth than TOS has had in the past.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

I think it's just his accent that makes the analysis sound more important and deeper than it really is. ;)

Oh, he had an accent. ;) I didn't say his analysis was important or deep. I just think that he accurately described the problems (at least those I had) with the movie.
And really, while Trek isn't vapid, when has Trek ever had any real depth? It's pop culture. It's Andy Warhol, not Monet. It's Fleetwood Mac, not Brahms.
If you'll remember, the reviewer acknowledges that very thing near the beginning of the review. He was saying (accurately IMO) that the new movie had even less depth than TOS has had in the past.

True, it was a straight action-adventure movie. No "big theme" to hit us over the head. But I guess I'd say that if we're discussing depth, "big themes," and Trek, the pool isn't that deep to begin with. So, I'm not going to hold lack of depth against the movie.
It should be said that I'm not saying that lack of real depth in a lot of Trek means it wasn't intelligent or the stories weren't good. And, I wouldn't say the lack of depth in ST09 made it "dumbed down" Trek, either.
Trek has been played for everything from pathos to slapstick, from high drama to camp. The palette of story colors is huge, and they decided to paint mostly from the action colors for ST09. Since I think they generally hit the nail on the head with the characters (the most important thing to me), and that made it feel like Trek to me, I was comfortable with that choice.

Edited to add: To make a long-winded post short, in my opinion, I just find the lack of depth criticisms specious.
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

To make a long-winded post short, in my opinion, I just find the lack of depth criticisms specious.
Then you should watch TMP back to back with Star Trek '09. No matter which movie you find cinematically superior you'll certainly find a difference in the depth of story and characters. I'm not saying that TMP is a particularly deep movie. I'm pointing out what the youtube guy was saying. "It's all relative."
 
Re: A Hand Extended From One Trekker Who Liked XI To The Other Who Did

To make a long-winded post short, in my opinion, I just find the lack of depth criticisms specious.
Then you should watch TMP back to back with Star Trek '09. No matter which movie you find cinematically superior you'll certainly find a difference in the depth of story and characters. I'm not saying that TMP is a particularly deep movie. I'm pointing out what the youtube guy was saying. "It's all relative."

Are we agreeing or disagreeing? :)

I'd say it's more like watching "Balance of Terror" followed by "The Trouble with Tribbles". Or "The City on the Edge of Forever", then "A Piece of the Aciton". The pairs vary considerably in depth of story and the use of the characters. Yet all four are popular episodes. Go figure.

TMP does have more emotional gravitas on the whole than ST09 does. And, I'd sit down and watch either movie right now. Some would walk out of the room if the "wrong" one appeared on the screen. I guess it's a matter of taste, really. I suppose there are fans who hate "Tribbles" and "PoA" because they find them farcical and shallow. I think some folks believe ST09 aimed too low. As a big-budget reintroduction of the franchise, they believed Abrams should've pulled out all stops to be Trek at its most thought-provoking. Instead, he went mostly for action-packed. Oh, well. Over $250 million later, who's to say who was correct? ;)

Depth of story can be relative, too. For instance, I thought Insurrection was rather thought-provoking in theme, just not in the execution of it.
 
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