A Comic Virgins Review: Allstar Superman

[Guy Gardener]

Dean Cain's Superman said it so well "You've built the tallest building in metropolis. Great. If you want to see me, look up."

I loved the Homer Simpsonish "Doh" Luthor belched when some one asked him why he didn't get Superpowers from the devil when the devil cured his terminal clone degeneration after his original body passed on because of Kryptonite poinsoning.

Neron. I know. K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[Broccoli]

I think I prefer BusinessMan Luthor. Mostly because I grew up with it. Mad scientist Luthor is interesting, but from the back issues I read, it comes off as a little silly at times. I mean, at the end of each issue, Superman would throw Lex in jail and, in a few issues later, Lex would escape. Repeat. Lex continuing to escape really makes Superman seem ineffective. You would think that you would want to throw your arch nemesis in a place where they would never be able to escape from.

Then again, that is a conceit of comics that they have to keep finding ways to come back.

Businessman Luthor at least gave the character somewhat of a legitimate excuse for him to never really get in trouble and still being present to threaten Superman.

In a perfect world, there would be a merging of the two. Tom DeHaven's It's Superman novel did a pretty fair job of doing this.

 

[Christopher]

I think I prefer BusinessMan Luthor. Mostly because I grew up with it. Mad scientist Luthor is interesting, but from the back issues I read, it comes off as a little silly at times. I mean, at the end of each issue, Superman would throw Lex in jail and, in a few issues later, Lex would escape. Repeat. Lex continuing to escape really makes Superman seem ineffective. You would think that you would want to throw your arch nemesis in a place where they would never be able to escape from.

It doesn't make Superman seem ineffective, it makes the prison system seem ineffective. Where else could Superman "throw" Luthor? He's a straight arrow. He plays by the rules. He's not going to take the law into his own hands and lock Luthor up in some deep dark pit in the Fortress of Solitude, say. He'll turn him over to the proper authorities for the sake of due process.

Besides, as pointed out above, it's just as silly for businessman Luthor to continue to have plausible deniability for one megacrime after another. You'd think that it would be easy for the reportorial skills of Clark Kent combined with the sensory abilities of Superman to gather enough evidence to expose Luthor.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Besides, as pointed out above, it's just as silly for businessman Luthor to continue to have plausible deniability for one megacrime after another. You'd think that it would be easy for the reportorial skills of Clark Kent combined with the sensory abilities of Superman to gather enough evidence to expose Luthor.

Not when Luthor is so good about engineering his coverups...and how would Clark present such evidence without giving up his secret id?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Besides, as pointed out above, it's just as silly for businessman Luthor to continue to have plausible deniability for one megacrime after another. You'd think that it would be easy for the reportorial skills of Clark Kent combined with the sensory abilities of Superman to gather enough evidence to expose Luthor.

In Mark Waid's birthright, they had Superman on the stand in a court of law and they asked him how he knew that lex was responsible for setting o0ff a bomb as part of some master plan? Superman replies that he could SEE the radio waves tracking from the bomb sight to the detonator in Luthors office... Which of course is uncorroborable, so Luthor was set free.

 

[Cicero]

Grudgingly consensus agrees that the greatest comicbook artist of our era is a fellow called Jim lee. here is some of his work frmo a recent project.

http://images.google.co.nz/images?q...&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

I really wish he'd drawn All Star Superman, as originally planned. It would have been amazing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Either of them gives me a perfectly usable broner.

I'm guessing that Voume II will have a different creative team?

Any word on that?

But I don't see the point, the ALLStar line is a failure.

Less than 24 issues have been churned out from only 2 titles in the last 4 years. DC tried to imitate the success of the ultimate line but they foolishly thought that quality was preferrable to quantity... They need an everlasting gobstopper like Bendis to mastermind this pocket universe if thy want to do more than lurk.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

In Mark Waid's birthright, they had Superman on the stand in a court of law and they asked him how he knew that lex was responsible for setting o0ff a bomb as part of some master plan? Superman replies that he could SEE the radio waves tracking from the bomb sight to the detonator in Luthors office... Which of course is uncorroborable, so Luthor was set free.

That and the Constitutional questions...if Superman can use his enhanced senses as evidence, then why can't police use sense enhancing technology without a warrant? A whole RAFT of privacy, self incrimination, and search/seizure considerations come into play...

 

[Guy Gardener]

In Mark Waid's birthright, they had Superman on the stand in a court of law and they asked him how he knew that lex was responsible for setting o0ff a bomb as part of some master plan? Superman replies that he could SEE the radio waves tracking from the bomb sight to the detonator in Luthors office... Which of course is uncorroborable, so Luthor was set free.

That and the Constitutional questions...if Superman can use his enhanced senses as evidence, then why can't police use sense enhancing technology without a warrant? A whole RAFT of privacy, self incrimination, and search/seizure considerations come into play...

not even needing to go near how pervy Kal was in Superman returns, i just want to mention how often it's mentioned on Smallville about how Clark spent his youth leering through a telescope at lana's house. God help the lads self control when his macrovision and x-ray vision eventually kicked in.

 

[ATimson]

That and the Constitutional questions...if Superman can use his enhanced senses as evidence, then why can't police use sense enhancing technology without a warrant?

As I understand it, police are free to passively collect EM emissions made into the open (it's literally the same as leaving your blinds open, and there shouldn't be any expectation of privacy with such broadcasts), but they aren't allowed to use active sensors like radar or sonar. I don't know how Superman's "vision" works, though.

 

[ElScoob]

As I understand it, police are free to passively collect EM emissions made into the open (it's literally the same as leaving your blinds open, and there shouldn't be any expectation of privacy with such broadcasts), but they aren't allowed to use active sensors like radar or sonar. I don't know how Superman's "vision" works, though.

At least one interpretation (Roger Stern) suggests that Superman can just plain see the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Thus his x-ray vision is really a matter of being able to visually detect stuff on the higher end of the spectrum, like x-rays and gamma rays, which pass through most materials unimpeded. So I guess that to Superman, most materials can seem almost transparent. Or something like that.

At any event, the idea is it's all pretty passive (as opposed to the older interpretation of things, wherein Superman actively shot x-rays out of his eyes to look through stuff... really! That's where his heat vision originated... for a long time, it was explicitly described as 'the heat of my x-ray vision'), and so the privacy issues (under the legal interpretation you mention) become kind of scary. Not having a lead-lined house would be tantamount to giving Superman an invitation to look around, I guess.

 

[Thrall]

Trump Lex is interesting because of the symbolism involved. Superman represents everything that is good about America. He represents hope, charity, justice, idealism, mercy, selflessness, and values. And as such, Lex Luthor should represent everything that is bad about America. He represents greed, inequality, cynicism, selfishness, crime, and corruption. And what a better representation of greed, then a Wall Street tycoon. What a better representative of an Ayn Rand, Objectavist viewpoint then Luthor, a self-made man who believes in the power and destiny of man and that relying on a person that no human could ever possibly hope to be like is holding mankind back from achieving this potential. It's not that his beliefs are flawed.
It's his methods and his ends-justify-the-means way he goes about doing things.

I find this anti-hero Lex to be far more interesting. The Mad Scientist thing is kind of dated imo, and there are others who do it better, like Doctor Doom. That Lex believes himself to be above the law and as such humanity is a view that is often validated, because most of the time he is. Because Superman plays by the rules. Luthor does not. A world were, to the public, Luthor is just as a legitimate public figure as Superman creates potential for all types directions they could go with that. That the crime and greed and corruption Luthor represents is not just confined to a lone madman, out for revenge against humanity's guardian, but is apart of the very system and culture Superman has sworn to protect creates all types of questions.

The thing is, many people would agree with Luthor in principle. Batman and Green Arrow, the two most prominent human crime fighters, especially would. Batman may belong to The Justice League, but he's not really one of them and never has been. He's there to make sure they stay honest and don't become what Luthor believes they will become if left unchecked. Something like The Justice Lords or Ozymandias from The Watchmen. This mentality reached it's zenith in The Dark Knight Returns. There was a lot of people out there who got a little sick and tired of Superman solving all their problems with one big perfect wave of his perfect, God-like hand. They got a little tired of zero accountability and oversight for a guy who could easily abuse his power any time he wanted to. People got a little tired of a guy who could do anything and took it upon himself to do everything that humanity found difficult. Thus taking away the struggle. Thus taking away what made us human. To many he was practically saying "I AM your hero. I AM your savior. And you have NO SAY in the matter AT ALL." Batman and Green Arrow's response? "The fuck if we don't!" as they beat Superman within an inch of his life. Luthor is basically Batman's response to the meta-human situation if Batman ever went of the deep end about it.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Trump Lex is interesting because of the symbolism involved. Superman represents everything that is good about America. He represents hope, charity, justice, idealism, mercy, selflessness, and values. And as such, Lex Luthor should represent everything that is bad about America. He represents greed, inequality, cynicism, selfishness, crime, and corruption. And what a better representation of greed, then a Wall Street tycoon. What a better representative of an Ayn Rand, Objectavist viewpoint then Luthor, a self-made man who believes in the power and destiny of man and that relying on a person that no human could ever possibly hope to be like is holding mankind back from achieving this potential. It's not that his beliefs are flawed.
It's his methods and his ends-justify-the-means way he goes about doing things.

Nope, it's definitely his beliefs that are bad, if he's the Objectivist hero you claim him to be. Ayn Rand is the personification of the amoral justification of evil.

 

[Thrall]

Trump Lex is interesting because of the symbolism involved. Superman represents everything that is good about America. He represents hope, charity, justice, idealism, mercy, selflessness, and values. And as such, Lex Luthor should represent everything that is bad about America. He represents greed, inequality, cynicism, selfishness, crime, and corruption. And what a better representation of greed, then a Wall Street tycoon. What a better representative of an Ayn Rand, Objectavist viewpoint then Luthor, a self-made man who believes in the power and destiny of man and that relying on a person that no human could ever possibly hope to be like is holding mankind back from achieving this potential. It's not that his beliefs are flawed.
It's his methods and his ends-justify-the-means way he goes about doing things.

Nope, it's definitely his beliefs that are bad, if he's the Objectivist hero you claim him to be. Ayn Rand is the personification of the amoral justification of evil.

I think being able to take care of yourself is not really a bad thing. But Rand just takes it to such a fucking extreme that it's almost satire. I don't really agree with her, but I do find her interesting on some level. And as far as Luthor goes, I was merely speaking from his point of view. On the surface, he's a demented sociopath. But underneath that, there's something more there then wanting to screw over Superman just because he can.

 

[Christopher]

Besides, as pointed out above, it's just as silly for businessman Luthor to continue to have plausible deniability for one megacrime after another. You'd think that it would be easy for the reportorial skills of Clark Kent combined with the sensory abilities of Superman to gather enough evidence to expose Luthor.

Not when Luthor is so good about engineering his coverups...and how would Clark present such evidence without giving up his secret id?

I'm not suggesting he accuses Luthor based on the specific things he discovers as Superman. I'm suggesting that he could use his superpowers to devise ways to expose Luthor through other means that would hold up in court. For instance, if he learns through super-eavesdropping that Luthor is going to share a limo ride with a known terrorist to discuss a sale of weapons, Superman could then arrange for the limo to break down in front of the police station, maybe use his heat vision to cause an electrical short that fills the limo with smoke and requires Lex and the terrorist to flee into the open where the cops and plenty of witnesses would see them together. That would surely be enough to get a warrant on Luthor. And if Luthor tried to cover his tracks, a sufficiently devious Superman/Clark could employ similar tactics to stymie him at every turn and ensure that evidence came into the possession of the police and DA through means that would hold up in court and not require that Clark expose his identity.

 

[Broccoli]

^ But then that brings up another point. Would Superman do things by a devious nature? I would argue that he wouldn't.

 

[Christopher]

^ But then that brings up another point. Would Superman do things by a devious nature? I would argue that he wouldn't.

Uhh, he pretends to be a bespectacled human named Clark Kent. He conceals his true identity and lies to his friends and colleagues about his frequent disappearances. That's devious by definition. We know that Superman is not above using secretive methods for benevolent purposes. I'm not proposing that he'd break the law or hurt anyone, just that he'd use his wits to accumulate actionable evidence against a criminal. Secrecy isn't automatically corruption. It's more like strategy. Luthor plays a complex game to conceal his criminal actions, so it's a matter of Superman using his own strategy to cancel out Luthor's.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Nope, it's definitely his beliefs that are bad, if he's the Objectivist hero you claim him to be. Ayn Rand is the personification of the amoral justification of evil.

I think being able to take care of yourself is not really a bad thing. But Rand just takes it to such a fucking extreme that it's almost satire. I don't really agree with her, but I do find her interesting on some level. And as far as Luthor goes, I was merely speaking from his point of view. On the surface, he's a demented sociopath. But underneath that, there's something more there then wanting to screw over Superman just because he can.

The only thing I find interesting (and scary) about Rand is how many people take her words as if they ALSO came down from the mountain on stone tablets.

Sociopath is a good word for Randites...and in Luthor's case, toss in a healthy shot of megalomania...

 

[Ultimale]

Just want to chime in here. In my opinion as a life-long Superman fan and comic book reader, All-Star Superman is good. But the fact is, it remains outside of standard DC continuity and as such, loses the power it could have otherwise. Right now, Action Comics is better than it's ever been. EVER. Geoff Johns and artist Gary Frank are doing amazing things. With the Legion saga, Brainiac, New Krypton, and then Superman: Secret Origins, we will finally have a truly classic and epic take on the Man of Steel right where it should be: within the DCU proper. I can't recommend these books enough, Dan. (hope you don't mind if I call you Dan) Go and find these on Amazon or at your local bookstore: Action Comics: Legion of Superheroes, Brainiac, and before both of those, Last Son. Read these and then come back and let's talk about how silly you find Superman to be.

 

[Christopher]

^^I don't get the idea that a story has less "power" if it's out of continuity. The worth of a story should lie within the story itself, not be dependent on external factors. A truly powerful story is one that can stand entirely on its own, that's a complete whole. Is Hamlet less powerful because it didn't spawn a dozen sequels following up on its consequences? Is Casablanca less powerful because we never saw what happened to Rick, Ilsa, Viktor, etc. in WWII? No. A good story is a good story.

Sure, when it's a character that already has an ongoing continuity, there's a difference, so that's not a perfect analogy. But an out-of-continuity story has the potential to be more powerful, because it isn't constrained by the continuity's limits and can do anything. It doesn't need to be part of something bigger, so it doesn't have to hold back. (Isn't "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" considered one of the most powerful Superman stories ever told? And wasn't it outside of standard continuity, at least with regard to the new continuity that took the place of the one it purported to conclude?)

Besides, it's not like "standard DC continuity" hasn't been reinvented half a dozen times already. Heck, it's been in such a state of flux over the past 20 years that I can't keep track of what's in and what's out anymore.